Can we please have something done about the ableism and mask exemption hatred on here.

[HeIenaDove]

@MNHQ Its been running rampant on the AIBU and Coronavirus boards on here for months and is now starting to leak into Chat too.

Its getting ridiculous. There needs to be a zero tolerance with this as there is with racism. I got banned for a week last month for losing a rag and name calling but this was after months of this discrimination on here.

It needs to be treated in the same way racism is. Which is just as abhorrent But it isnt.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

There's lots of people saying not to do anything about coronavirus and everyone who's vulnerable should stay at home or just maybe die. I feel like that's more anti disabled.

I would have thought that saying that vulnerable people should stay at home, ie shield, is the exact opposite of wanting them to die.

The assumption that 'the vulnerable' are a homogenous mass who are other to society, all for a certain criteria and can just cut themselves off from society for an unspecified amount of time, is pretty ableist.

Hi - just popping in to say you can email us directly and we'll be happy to take a look: [email protected]

I work for information and advice service for people with learning disabilities. They are experiencing issues because doctors don't give exemptions so it is being self policed. Many have breathing difficulties, anxiety, not fully understanding the rules. They are feeling harassed when they go out. We have suggested sunflower lanyards and we are issuing a letter from the CCG and council. However some people are staggeringly discriminatory on this forum. Ableism is equivalent to racism under the equality act and should be given equal weight when dealing with it.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a4134127-to-ask-if-anxiety-is-an-acceptable-excuse-for-not-wearing-a-mask?msgid=103596053#103596053

And now this one, in case I'm the first to link it. There's mask exemption hatred everywhere on here.

While I don't agree that ableism is comparable to racism I am genuinely interested in how this should be approached.
With no clear guides or formal exemption how could this be managed? The sunflower lanyards are meaningless as anyone can get one, simply saying 'I'm exempt' means it's open to abuse and many people claiming they simply can't wear a face covering actually can (many mild asthmatics* for example are fine wearing one but could say 'I'm asthmatic do exempt). Is requiring a formal exemption card certified or provided by a HCP the answer so anti-maskers or Covid deniers are obvious?

I was at my GP the other day who have a sign saying if you're not wearing a face covering you won't be seen including those with exemptions. So no mask, no admittance regardless of your circumstances which on one hand I agree with because it's a GP practise and any safety measures are to protect a vital service, but on the other hand if someone with eg. COPD* needed to see a doctor and they are running late (25 minutes late when I was there) it's potentially a long time to have a covering on if you genuinely struggle to breathe with it on.

*I have used these as examples because they are conditions I'm familiar with. My dh is moderately asthmatic and wears a mask, my late DGM had COPD and was on oxygen. Had she still been alive she would not have been able to wear a mask with the oxygen lines.

Ableism is equivalent to racism under the equality act and should be given equal weight when dealing with it.
Amen to that.

@majesticallyawkward

While I don't agree that ableism is comparable to racism...

Can I ask why?

I was at my GP the other day who have a sign saying if you're not wearing a face covering you won't be seen including those with exemptions.

That's unlawful discrimination.

Of course it is not comparable with racism. What a stupid and ignorant thing to say.

Everyone should be wearing a mask. It is the law and it is for everyone's safety.

There can be very few genuine reasons for not wearing one. If you genuinely can't then you should be ready with some form of proof as you enter a public space and I'm sure people will be sympathetic.

Now the ableism starts on here. Come on MN, this is not acceptable.

Of course it is not comparable with racism. What a stupid and ignorant thing to say.

I'm really sorry, if I am being stupid and ignorant, but can you explain why?

Nothing to do with the thread but @HelenaDove is all ok? I've not seen your name crop up for weeks (maybe I've missed it) and thought that unusual for you.

[quote HazeyJaneII]@majesticallyawkward

While I don't agree that ableism is comparable to racism...

Can I ask why?[/quote]
I'm not sure I can articulate it well enough in a post.
Racism is such a huge, and historical issue, it's baked into so much of our lives (look at the BLM protests vs the Capitol riot, the frenzy around brexit). It's institutional, so much so we don't even realise it at times. BAME disabled people are doubly disadvantaged but have their voices cancelled out too often because it becomes a one or the other situation.

When claiming ableism as comparable to racism we run the risk of conflating the two oppressions like #alllivesmatter dismissed the BLM message.

It's not a competition, the two are linked- as are all forms of discrimination. It's such a complex area, and one I admit I am no expert in.

I'm sure there is someone far more articulate who could explain better.

Pp were not suggesting the two forms of discrimination are identical in nature and context (although to suggest that disability discrimination is not historical, institutional or "baked in" to society is very naive) but that in the eyes of the law people are entitled to the same protections against either race discrimination or disability discrimination.

The Equality Act covers both. That is the point. There is no separate disability discrimination act or exemption in the Equality Act that says "hey, disability discrimination is not so bad, go ahead" .

Comparing people taking issue with disability discrimination to the "all lives matter" crowd as a way to try and shame and silence them is crass, at best.

When claiming ableism as comparable to racism we run the risk of conflating the two oppressions like #alllivesmatter dismissed the BLM message.

No, because #AllLivesMatter was about "I am a privileged person but I am going to speak over less privileged people". The idea that racism and ableism are comparable is more "we are both underprivileged communities but we are equally valid". Unless you somehow believe that disabled people have a "leg up" of some kind on ethnic minorities?
The systemic suppression of disabled people is a long-term sequence of events, akin to systemic racism. It doesn't have to be a competition, you just need to not question the validity of the oppression.

It's institutional, so much so we don't even realise it at times.

The fact that you've not realised how long ableism has been around, shows that the two are comparable.

The Equality Act covers both. That is the point. There is no separate disability discrimination act or exemption in the Equality Act that says "hey, disability discrimination is not so bad, go ahead" .

Absolutely, but comparing racism to ableism also isn't helping either cause. Ultimately it ends up as playing the two against each other when that isn't the case. The two are covered by the equality act but are essentially not comparable in the way that is being forced here.

And as I said, I'm no expert and there will be someone who can articulate it better than I can.

Please can you ensure @MHHQ that the policy is fair to those particularly vulnerable to covid (many for reasons directly covered by DDA, both CEV and CV)

A reasonable adjustment for one group is no longer reasonable when it leads to risk of death or highly unpleasant illness for a group of disabled people who have just as much right to be in a public space, and are there without putting other people at risk

Absolutely, but comparing racism to ableism also isn't helping either cause. Ultimately it ends up as playing the two against each other when that isn't the case. The two are covered by the equality act but are essentially not comparable in the way that is being forced here.

How do you consider it being forced? From what I've seen, PPs have expressed annoyance that ableism has been allowed to stand (which it repeatedly has across various threads) but racism is not. That point is being used to suggest that no discrimination should be permitted at all. Pitting oppressed groups together would be saying "Oh you're x? Well I'm y, I have it worse than you" or "I deserve more rights than you". Not sure anyone's said that, though.

A reasonable adjustment for one group is no longer reasonable when it leads to risk of death or highly unpleasant illness for a group of disabled people who have just as much right to be in a public space, and are there without putting other people at risk

But this is incorrect. A mask exempt person carries 0% extra risk so long as social distancing is maintained of 2m. There is only a little bit more risk, 30%, if a mask exempt person also does not social distance.
It is a reasonable adjustment to allow mask exempt people equal rights to go on essential trips outside the home because social distancing is also a rule that all must follow. It’s really a lot of paranoia that is feeding this fear that you’ll catch Covid from a mask exempt person. You can only catch it if you get close enough....and even if you were close enough, 2 in 3 times you would still not catch it from a Covid positive and contagious non mask wearers.

If you claim you annot wear a mask, which is very few people, fair enough . You should not expect to go to certain places where a mask is required.

Actually mask wearing can cause many issues if the mask is not used correctly. Somebody with a learning disability may use a mask incorrectly and cause more risk to individuals.

I'm disabled and I wear a mask. I could be exempt but I choose to wear one to keep others safe. It isn't disablist to point out that mask wearing is to protect other people. A lot of disable people do wear them.

The number who say they can't is tiny but there are a lot of people who pretend they can't and I don't have a problem with them being challenged when they are in places where they could pass on an infection.

I want as many people protected as possible.

@Anotherlovelybitofsquirrel

If you claim you annot wear a mask, which is very few people, fair enough . You should not expect to go to certain places where a mask is required.

So while the law says that mask exempt have the legal right to go into places where mask/face covering is required, you are saying they should not expect to do that? That is ridiculous. It’s like saying even though the law requires disabled access be constructed outside public buildings, the disabled should not expect any disabled access? Or the law tells airports they must have wheelchairs for disabled, but disabled should not expect any wheelchairs at an airport?

What use is there of a law protecting disabled rights if you are going to dismiss that law in hand and act like disabled don’t have a right that has been put into law?

Two programmes coming up on BBC2 ................Silenced The Hidden Story of Disabled Britain. And Targeted The Truth About Disability Hate Crime.
Could be a chance for people to share their experiences of mask exemption hatred on the Twitter hashtags.