To ask for a one strike and out policy in regards to racism.

[TeddyIsaHe]

With what is going on at the moment I feel it’s high time MNHQ take an actual stance on racism. It’s not enough to delete posts, or let threads run because other’s are standing up for BAME people.

MNHQ need to stamp out the dog whistle, indoctrinated and blatant racism on this site. So if a poster is deleted for a racist post that’s it.

You’re either anti-racist or you’re not. Allowing frankly disgusting members to continue posting after a slap on the wrist is bizarre and unacceptable.

Seconded.

I’m not sure I agree. I think the only way to stop people ignorance is to engage in debate. If someone is a repeat offender or just out to troll then obviously boot them but I think it’s worth at least trying to educate people.

@ShouldWeChangeTheBulb But people can ask questions and not be racist. You can debate and not be racist, and if someone is racist talking to propel on MN isn’t going to change their mind.

Enough is enough.

Would this be about people saying that of course racism isn't just something white people do? I know that has upset some people, but that's the beauty of a forum. You get to hear all points of view and people can come away with a better understanding.

Who will decide what is racism? And what are their qualifications to do so?

I’m sorry, are you saying you don’t understand racism @Moondust001? It’s incredibly obvious when someone is being racist, because the post is er... racist. You don’t need a qualification to see that.

What if someone genuinely doesn't realise they are being racist TeddyIsaHe?

@TeddyIsaHe

I’m sorry, are you saying you don’t understand racism *@Moondust001*? It’s incredibly obvious when someone is being racist, because the post is er... racist. You don’t need a qualification to see that.

People have different definitions of the word racism.

How is anyone accidentally racist? Seriously, in what context would this happen?

How is anyone accidentally racist? Seriously, in what context would this happen?

Personal examples:

5 years ago or so, it didn't occur to me that Bo Selecta's Craig David was racist, or the voicing of Apo in The Simpsons. I'm ashamed to say that now, but it's true. I now realise it is racist.

Another example (disablist though, but same principles). I once had a Munsnet rant about incompetent staff in ASDA. My thread title was something along the lines of "Morons at ASDA pharmacy". I had absolutely no idea morons was a disablist word. I was quickly chastised for this and MNHQ changed my title. I know now not to use that word.

I’ve been called racist here for posting verifiable facts. So no, I don’t agree with this because who will judge what is racist and what’s not? No one should want an echo chamber on here, this site needs to keep its reputation for lively debate and just maintain the Talk guidelines

Some people are just so thick on here it’s good to try to educate them. Blanket banning means they don’t get to benefit from any reasoning.

Ok, I do see everyone’s points, and there are nuances that have a right to be discussed and debated.

But blatant racists (and there are plenty!) need to be gone. I’m sick to death of seeing the same posters over and over having their posts removed and continuing to be able to spew their disgusting views.

You might not need a qualification to see that something is racist OP, but you do need a certain amount of sophistication. Every day on MN people get called out for statements which some people see as dogwhistle or coded racism but has some veneer of plausible deniability, and has several people defending them claiming that they don’t see it as racism at all. Now some of the defenders are probably disingenuous but some genuinely (normally wrongly) don’t see it. There are far more posts which you have to read the racism between the lines than there are which are blatantly bang to rights racist. MNHQ is normally very very quick to act on the bleeding obvious racism, but they probably do need to tighten up their act on the coded stuff.

@TeddyIsaHe

I’m sorry, are you saying you don’t understand racism *@Moondust001*? It’s incredibly obvious when someone is being racist, because the post is er... racist. You don’t need a qualification to see that.

No I am not saying that. I am saying that it is not as clear cut as you think it is because there are shades of interpretation which are not agreed upon. They might be in your mind, but not to everyone else. We have seen that time and time again, when people on here have called someone racist because they disagree with them. Is it racist to say that all lives matter - or does it depend? On what? Is it only white people who can be racist? And what is a "white" person?

Yes, it is incredibly obvious when someone uses certain pejorative words to describe someone, or a group of people, based solely on their ethnicity or skin colour. I must assume that such things are deleted. But there are many shades of understanding - as exhibited on many threads here - about what is legitimate debate. I would like to know who the person is that will decide this and how they will do it.

I don't think it's that simple. Would any critique of Megan Markle then be considered racist? Any post moaning about travellers trashing a village green? Automatically racist?

Disagree, there’s lots of times where people are unintentionally racist.
Warnings/ deletions and then bans for repeat offenders is good enough.

I remember a thread a couple of months ago where the OP was asking why they'd been accused of being racist. It was use of words that had meanings OP wasn't aware of, and was horribly embarrassed by.

The thread turned into an absolute shitshow after that (both people not RTFT and others being provocative jerks) and I think got deleted.

But yes, unwitting racism when someone hadn't kept up with the changing language.

And are you the judge and jury?

I've reported 4 comments this evening alone for racism.

3 of the astonishingly blithe and casual kind and one verging on hate speech.

I think there needs to be a much stronger statement and vigilance from MNHQ on this.

I agree that something needs to be done, but this would be impossible to enforce.

I think MNHQ could do more to step in when the many many examples of casual racism on here happen and use them as an opportunity to educate - I'd be very interested to see how they'd implement that.

I agree MNHQ need to put out a statement on their stance on racism, especially in light of what is going on.

The Meghan Markle threads were fucking disgusting and left to run into double figures.

A thread challenging the Meghan Markle threads was deleted today. So I doubt MNHQ will ever ban the racists on here.