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Original poster

Mumsnet and Child Protection

24 replies

DancingDot · 21/08/2018 23:38

I'm wondering how Mumsnet deals with child protection issues. If it is clear that a child is being harmed by a poster or someone else, does Mumsnet have a duty to break the anonymity of the poster and report the thread to the relevant authorities.

I asked this question earlier in a report message but I got a group e-mail in response that didn't answer the question.

Thanks

OP posts:

Roussette · 22/08/2018 12:16

Good grief NO, MN does not have a duty of care to break anonymity. I've been involved in issues regarding safeguarding within a very well known organisation (I don't want to be more specific) and I promise you, it just does not work like that, especially on an anonymous forum.

What do you expect MN to do? Track down their ISP and contact the police, (a lengthy process) by which time the poster has made up with her DH, the kids appear to be OK, and it was just a made up story anyway...

What about malicious posts? What about trolls? Not everyone is who they seem and MN should never be in judgement that something is truthful or maybe not truthful.

Glymou · 22/08/2018 12:21

What about malicious posts? What about trolls? Not everyone is who they seem and MN should never be in judgement that something is truthful or maybe not truthful.

This. It would also be ridiculous waste of time following all of these posts up and breaking anonymity in process. What a can of worms to open, also. I don't mean to be rude, but I'm surprised you need clarification.

Roussette · 22/08/2018 12:28

Yes, absolutely and when MN knows they are dealing with a previously banned poster, they ban them again. That's fine. They've been banned for a reason and are then dealt with when they come back.

But MN cannot assume that everything that is posted on here is true. So... someone posts about their NDN's children being neglected. Do you honestly think MN should put on their detective hats, assume it's true, track down the ISP, pass that information on to the Police (who wouldn't follow it up anyway) and b doing this, everything will be hunky dory! That's not how the internet works.

Original poster

DancingDot · 22/08/2018 13:23

I can understand where there is an element of doubt, but where a mother posts that her child is currently being harmed - that is not worth investigating. What about suicide threats or bomb threats..... all to be taken with a pinch of salt? Why would Mumsnet need to "play detective". They have our names and e-mail addresses - it wouldn't be too difficult to pass these to the police.

I'm sure you do mean to be rude or you simply wouldn't be. I'm also sorry that you find the notion of trying to protect children from abusive adults so absurd and a waste of time.

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Roussette · 22/08/2018 14:14

So how Dotty would you establish that there is no doubt?

One thing without doubt is... posters come on here and post deliberately inflammatory threads. How do you know that what is written is truth? I can promise you the Police would not act on anonymous posts on a forum. They would need more than that. How do you know that the MNer who is posting about her DP slapping her child is not making it up? You say 'if it is clear that a child is being harmed by a poster or by someone else.' How on earth is it clear?

Mumsnet is not a Child protection Agency. I've been very involved in an organisation that instigated safeguarding procedures and I can't tell you how difficult it is to do. Please read the link below. The 6 principles of safeguarding. That will explain fully why MN cannot do what you are saying, there are rules to be followed

www.anncrafttrust.org/resources/six-principles-adult-safeguarding/

Roussette · 22/08/2018 14:18

By the way, the same principles apply to children.

Glymou · 22/08/2018 14:29

I'm also sorry that you find the notion of trying to protect children from abusive adults so absurd and a waste of time.

Where did I say that? I didn't. I said following up posts, and breaking anonymity, on the unlikely basis they are fact and true, would be a waste time, and simply not going to happen...as Mumsnet will tell you.

I'm sure they will clarify that for you.

Roussette · 22/08/2018 14:48

Apologies, I meant to call you Dot.

Original poster

DancingDot · 22/08/2018 16:07

So if a post is reported and Mumsnet respond saying "This is a long term poster and we have no reason to doubt them" - but then fail to report abuse, they are acknowledging that they believe the poster but are failing to act to protect a child.

Websites can and do liaise with the police often in instances of misogynistic, racial, and homophobic abuse or threats. Why is the safety of a child any less important?

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Phosphorus · 22/08/2018 16:12

Because if someone makes a threat online, it's there clear as day. The post is the offence.

If I tell you my neighbours lock their toddler in the roof box for twelve hours a day, that's ...well nothing.

Grasslands · 22/08/2018 16:12

A large percentage of MN posts are fake. Not to mention replies and experiences.

Roussette · 22/08/2018 16:25

I don't think Dot you have read all the hoops you have to jump through when safeguarding children or adults. You don't just report something because you don't like the sound of it on a forum. You have to make sure the person understands what you are doing, you have to protect their interests and talk through what course of action is open to them, you have to give them the opportunity to contact someone themselves, etc etc.

You are deluded (sorry) if you think MN can do this, you are expecting far far too much of them. They run a forum not an Agency! So if a long term poster starts a thread about her NDN and what she thinks is a problem with the family, that's gospel is it? It isn't. She needs to ring the Police/SS herself if she has worries, not expect MN to sort it out.

If she's posting about herself, the same applies quite honestly. She should be encouraged to take action herself. And on DV threads for instance, that's what other posters do... they talk of Womens Aid etc.

Original poster

DancingDot · 22/08/2018 16:25

But surely for Mumsnet to take this stance they then have to state that they believe that a large percentage of posts are fake.

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Original poster

DancingDot · 22/08/2018 16:30

You have to make sure the person understands what you are doing, you have to protect their interests and talk through what course of action is open to them, you have to give them the opportunity to contact someone themselves, etc etc.

This is not the case. I also work in an environment where child protection is a major issue. If someone told me something that concerned me about the safety of a child I am duty bound to report it. I am most certainly NOT expected to protect the interests of the person who spoke to me about it in the first place. For the simple fact that that person may well be the perpetrator of abuse or neglect.

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Roussette · 22/08/2018 16:31

They can't investigate every post! I believe there are 36,000 every day.

What do you expect them to do?

Phosphorus · 22/08/2018 16:31

They don't have to state it.

Anyone with a brain knows that internet forums are 70% fantasy.

It's escapism, fodder for the Mail, stuff written to get a reaction etc.

If I ever read a thread about a victimised step child, or a pair of plimsolls, or a box room, or a partner who is greedy with food, I instantly assume it's a fetish/tall-tale thing.

There are loads of others too.

NerrSnerr · 22/08/2018 16:32

But everyone knows that much of what's written on Mumsnet and the rest of the Internet is fake. Imagine if a neighbour of yours decided to fabricate a story about you and the police came knocking?

Grasslands · 22/08/2018 16:35

Lots of posters are from other countries.

Roussette · 22/08/2018 16:37

Well, you know better than me then. You will understand the complexities. I really don't want to say how or why I have said what I have with regard to the organisation I was involved in because it's too outing.

I still don't know how you can expect Mumsnet to be reporting everything that posters don't like the sound of given this is an anonymous forum.

Roussette · 22/08/2018 16:39

Anyone with a brain knows that internet forums are 70% fantasy

^^ This

Original poster

DancingDot · 22/08/2018 16:42

Not for a second expecting mumsnet to report "everything that posters don't like". But in a situation where a poster has a solid history with the forum, has consistency in the information they are posting, and reports that their own child has been abused, then I would not expect Mumsnet to say "Yes we believe this child has been abused and are going to do nothing". It seems wrong to me.

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Phosphorus · 22/08/2018 16:49

Quite apart from anything else, I suspect the actual MN staff know better than anyone else that even long standing posters lie.

There are posters who've been here for years posing consistently about lives that are pure fantasy.

Made up jobs, and children, and whole lives.

That's what the internet is for, for many people.

Sometimes they trip up, and you'll get a frantic weekend of 'unmasking' posts. Often around Christmas.

Glymou · 22/08/2018 17:22

"Yes we believe this child has been abused and are going to do nothing". It seems wrong to me.
I've never seen Mumsnet say anything like that.

Original poster

DancingDot · 23/08/2018 14:17

Glymou there is a current thread about a child being abused ... it was reported by several people. MN responded in a group reply saying that the poster was a long term poster and they have no reason to disbelieve the post. They believe it. BUT when I specifically asked about child protection procedure or policy there was no response. Hence this post...which has never been responded to by MN. Therefore they believe the child in question was abused, but are reluctant to be involved in anyway.

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