Request: Posters should need to have been registered for 30 days before being able to post on FWR

[Terfing]

Hello @mnhq

The regular posted on FWR are becoming very concerned over the large amount of transphobic posts that have been appearing from new members. This has happened a lot over the past week, I.e. Since Mumsnet has hit the news for allowing gender critical discussion.

Most of these posts appear at night when there is less-moderation around.

After a brief discussion, it has been suggested that a good way to handle this issue would be by allowing only users who have been registered for a minimum of 30 days to post there, similar to the 'sex' board.

We would like to hear your thoughts/ feedback on this idea.

Might it be feasible to allow new users to only post during the hours when MNHQ is able to moderate?

I disagree with a 30 day delay in being able to post. I think a better option would be a way to ID brand new accounts. Such as a user name with 'newbie' and a warning icon added to it for the first 30 days. That would leave screenshots pointless.

Maybe we could have both. A newbie tag wherever people post and also a 30 day history.

But if someone wants to post an arsey screenshot, they don't even need the header to be honest. They can write a load of shit, screenshot it and upload to twitter.

I think the 30 day period will mean that the arsey screenshot mod will get very bored before their time's up.

I disagree with a 30 day delay in being able to post. I think a better option would be a way to ID brand new accounts. Such as a user name with 'newbie' and a warning icon added to it for the first 30 days. That would leave screenshots pointless

This is a much better idea!

@RivkaMumsnet please can you include this idea.

I support the 30 day delay
AND DEFINITELY
a minimum number of posts elsewhere on the board
AND also
the 'newbie' flag

My preference is a combination of all 3

FWR is such a target for trolls and people with less than honest intentions it really deserves a minor bar to immediate posting for brand new members.

Plenty of other forums have this slight deterrent to certain boards.

I support the idea of new posters having to wait 30 days before creating a thread in FWR. I also agree with the idea of having to have made a number of undeleted posts before being allowed to participate in FWR.

If a poster is genuine then they will understand the need to wait.

MNHQ, would you consider hiring one or two night moderators? I know that this would have an impact on the budget but it would help to address the problem of trolling.

Thank you.

Oh, I like the idea of a 'newbie' flag. Good suggestion, Barracker.

I support the idea of doing something about the trolls but NOT at the expense of free speech and debate.

The trolls are winning if we do this - not only would we be restricting trolls but also women who need the support of other women.

A newbie tag and night mods would be an excellent idea for example.

If a poster is genuine then they will understand the need to wait

But what if they don't have a month to wait?

What if they are dealing with a situation that's urgent e.g. women coming here for advice because:

• her job is under threat and she's facing disciplinary for gender critical views
• her daughter has just announced she's trans
• her husband is a TIM and she needs some emotional support, now, not in a month
• she's just found out her sin is buying hormones off the internet and his school is supporting this - what can she say to the school?
• her daughter's school is planning a session on trans based on materials from Mermaids - how can she object?
• a transman has started feeling regret and is thinking of detransitioning and wants to discuss it here as everyone she knows won't understand.

This subject is not just an intellectual argument, it's an issue that's women people in real life, who need the support of other women.

There are other ways to solve this that don't involve self censorship - which is what this is.

In fact if someone told me this idea originated from a TRA troll I wouldn't be surprised. It weakens us. It silences gender critical women.

It's a terrible idea IMO.

I disagree with you on this grandplans, although i do want the same outcome of available support for posters who need it. I posted an explanation on the other thread.

Fwr is not primarily a support section.
But the women who are regular posters DO provide support nevertheless.
And we can and do give a shout out when a poster in another thread needs some advice and support.

We are however the target for trolls.
Wherever we congregate is where they attack.

It's only a short week since mnhq hid fwr from active threads. We're often told to take our topics off the main boards and go back to the fwr ghetto. Which makes us sitting ducks.

If you want the women of fwr to give their time and effort to support others they need some space and some deterrent for the goady posters and trolls.

Else we will stick to our secret groups for relief, and the incredible resource provided by committed posters will gradually vanish anyway as the trolls achieve what they wanted.

The 'price of entry' to fwr should be a show of good faith. If that is too onerous then so be it.

I think it's a bad idea.

It's sloppy thinking to assume that troublesome posters are new joiners.

(And I'd abolish the 'sex' topic, but thatMs a different matter)

I like the newbie idea as it also will help reduce the trollhunting of namechangers for sensitive topics. assuming a name change does not get you the newbie tag.

more moderators and 30 day delay in specific topics is good too.

I don't think it's a good idea to make new posters wait 30 days before they can post. I do like the 'flagging' of new posters.

I also think recruiting more Night Watchers, specifically for FWR boards and possibly extending watching to weekends as well, as a temporary measure, might help.

We all realise that MNHQ are deluged with reports at the moment, which obviously means they can't always get to them quickly. A few volunteer Watchers on patrol could hide posts until MNHQ can get to them.

There are several posters who have clearly demonstrated their cool heads and objectivity over the years and I think MNHQ could approach some of them.

Not necessary for any of us to know who they are, just that they are there.

JustineMN has put her neck on the line to allow free speech to continue and it would be a practical way to support her and MNHQ

And when the troublemakers do turn up, let us continue to ignore them, and instead chat about bees and lemon curd.

Great idea. I’d support a posting delay if just for FWR.

I support a posting delay for FRW and AIBU - both areas which attract trolls. The recent influx of new posters who are putting up awful transphobic shite to deliberately try and derail genuine gender critical debate, is alarming and needs to stop.

A posting delay for AIBU sounds like a very good idea quite apart from the current concerns.

I also think recruiting more Night Watchers, specifically for FWR boards and possibly extending watching to weekends as well, as a temporary measure, might help.

We all realise that MNHQ are deluged with reports at the moment, which obviously means they can't always get to them quickly. A few volunteer Watchers on patrol could hide posts until MNHQ can get to them.

There are several posters who have clearly demonstrated their cool heads and objectivity over the years and I think MNHQ could approach some of them.

Not necessary for any of us to know who they are, just that they are there.

JustineMN has put her neck on the line to allow free speech to continue and it would be a practical way to support her and MNHQ

This is an excellent idea.

Wouldn't people need to volunteer though? Not everyone is available to moderate at night.

I was thinking that perhaps MNHQ might contact some posters to see if they might be available for a 'rolling rota' for a while.

Or they could just ask for volunteers and then select from those that said they would be prepared to do it, as they did with the current watchers. I imagine that they looked at the length of membership and posting/reporting history before appointing them.

Hello Terfing and others,

Thanks for the ideas. We do see your points and we are currently having a think about what we might be able to do to improve things on this front. We have had a chat about these specific ideas though.

We would be concerned that not allowing people to post in feminism for 30 days might a) seem a bit 'othering' for the feminism boards, which we think would be a shame. It could put people off posting there full stop, if they felt it was a bit of a 'club', IYSWWM? But b) we think it would just move the issue into Chat and AIBU where perhaps posters aren't quite as clued in on what's been going on and so any trolling would possibly have more of an impact.

With regards to the idea of a 'newbie badge', again, it's a good idea in theory and might help solve this issue on the feminism boards, but we think we'd end up with newbies being accused of trolling for anything more 'opinion-based' than asking for slow-cooker recipes. And even in feminism, actually, we think it might mean new posters felt their opinions were less valued than others.

One of the nice things about Mumsnet is that it's completely egalitarian and you can just join up and post. And the vast majority of people that do so are simply wanting to get breastfeeding advice in the middle of the night or ask for help with their child's homework. Although we know it's really irritating when trolls run amok on the feminism boards, they are a tiny, tiny proportion of the people that sign up to post immediately, so we think it would be a shame be forced into a policy change by those few troublemakers when that change would adversely affect all our new users.

We also should add that a post from a newbie that goes heavily against the grain on a thread might seem like goadiness or trolling at first glance, but we'd want to see a strong pattern there before we zapped anyone for that. We think labelling folk as 'new' might make it harder for someone who is perfectly genuine but simply disagrees to join up and air their opinion, and we firmly believe that free speech cuts both ways.

So, in summary, at the moment we think the negatives of either of those policies would outweigh the positives. We will keep talking about it here though, and see if we can come up with other any ways to improve the situation. Please do continue to jot your ideas down here - we are reading them all and making notes.

Thanks @HebeMumsnet

Yes, I agree that most ideas are better in theory than in practice. I've just seen some horrible transphobia over the past few weeks, and it has really upset me because that is not what we want at all. We have many transgender posters here, as well as lots of people with transgender loved ones, etc. I really want to keep the FWR board safe and sensible for all.

@MNHQ so that leaves the final option of employing some paid night shift moderators. I've raised this with you in various ways and am yet to have an answer.

Thanks, Hebe. You made thoughtful points which were much appreciated.