MNHQ - do you think that there were Russian trolls operating on Mumsnet during the Brexit debates?

[kalapattar]

Given the recent indictment in the US?

Do you think there were posters deliberately trying to spread misinformation, promote certain messages etc who were based in the Russian Internet Research agency?

Well, the Russians seem to have gone to many lengths to create a social media world to influence people, create narratives, spread false information etc so they think it works. Or at the least, it's something worth looking at.

Newspapers have influence. Social media can have the same.

(It wouldn't surprise me if other countries were doing similar stuff in other countries as well)

The anti school cuts campaign with the interactive website showing how much each school was losing has been credited with losing a lot of Tory support in the election and that was hugely spread by social media, including MN.

I think one thing that the bots did was create an illusion of a mass consensus - that alone can be quite swaying. People do think, "Well, lot's of other people think this is a good idea, so it can't be all bad ..." And it works much like the ridiculous 'balance' the BBC presented - an ill-thought-out 50% 'pro' and 50% 'anti', which gave an illusion that informed opinion was 50-50 (rather than most experts thinking it was crazy).

I suspect quite a few people were swayed.

They had a very strange, very similar approach too, which relied a great deal on sheer volume - quantity rather than quality. It clogged up debate, which I think was the intention.

skippykips It would be nice if most people used Social media as a means to deepen our understanding, rather than just confirm beliefs. I still hope that social media will fulfil its potential for this.

Wherever did claig go?

No, I would be surprised if there were any targeting of MN (which isn't a political player by any stretch, no longer attracts big name posters for special threads etc)

I know there are people here who want to 'other' anyone whose views do not match theirs. But more people voted for Brexit than against it. More people voted Tory than Labour. And enough people voted for Trump to return him in their system (which can be done by a slightly lesser public vote, as Al Gore found out too).

Those people are real, they exist, and they sometimes post on MN, despite the tone of the site.

If you want to know what I mean by that, go back and read some of the post-election threads where posters have tried to answer the questions about why MN doesn't reflect RL.

The complaint here seems to be that there were a some right wing posts and posters. Well, given the size of MN, if there weren't - something wouldn't be badly wrong.

"It clogged up debate, which I think was the intention."

It prevented one side of the debate getting a clear run.

There would be just as much validity in saying that some posters are on the left-wing klaxon (something known to exist) and just want to fill boards with their viewpoint, so that there is no airtime for other view points.

I would not like it if MN became an echo chamber.

And I hope you are providing MNHQ with actual examples of posts/posters you think are trolls.

(BTW - given the frequency of name changing, I wouldn't read anything in to usernames coming and going)

I heard some researchers on this speak recently. They feel Americans are exposed to 1:1 junk news- for every 1 legitimate, professionally researched, evidenced feature on social media, there was 1 entirely made-up.

They felt it was 4:1 in the uk during brexit. (They didn't mention mn!) it's not just Russians but Macedonian teenagers - some want to make money/many want to spread discord.

This is bad news obviously.

Obviously, we bring here what we've learnt in the outside world- so if you're learning is mostly from sm then you might well be disseminating Russian produced junk anyway.

And I hope you are providing MNHQ with actual examples of posts/posters you think are trolls

One poster has already been mentioned. They certainly clogged up debate.

One poster has already been mentioned. They certainly clogged up debate.

Are you on about Claig?

She was on the politics boards for years before Brexit, Trump or even Cameron's GE win - if she's one of your suspected Russians then you're definitely barking up the wrong tree.

I always thought claig was a fella for some reason.

Definitely. Don't know where they were based - Bristol would be a good guess. But there were lots of threads IN CAPITAL LETTERS about Turkey definitely joining the EU and 'YOUR CHILDREN WILL BE RECRUITED TO AN EU ARMY' from posters who completely disappeared post late June 2016.

Lots still here of course. MN aren't bothered at all.

Claig's views and ways of expressing him/herself were exactly the same as my dad!

He's no Russian troll.

There were certainly trolls of some description on here leading up to the US election.

I wish I'd screenshotted it, but the morning after the election, one was posting stuff like, "I love the smell of liberal tears in the morning." And then vanished.

Don't know why they were on a UK site for a US election, but MN does come pretty high up Google results.

And no, meditrina, the complaint isn't that "there were some right wing posts and posters".

You're a right-ish wing poster and I don't suspect you of being a troll. Maybe I'm wrong there, but I don't.

There were and are other posters where I do wonder if they're trolls.

But I don't think we should be offering a Trolls' Handbook for political trolls, any more than we than do for MN's emotional vampire trolls.

Hi all,

We've been looking into some posters behind the scenes. If you think of any more, give us a shout.

kalapattar. Threads would be taken over within minutes by a couple of users posting and posting without engaging until everyone else gave up. It was very very noticeable

Still happening on the EU threads same posters constantly shut down Leaver discussions don't think they are trolls though just incapable of seeing anyone elses viewpoint.

BTW, a couple of quick primers for what's being going on affecting the US:

Seven key takeaways from the Russian indictments
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43093260

The tactics of a Russian troll farm
www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-43093390
When the operatives - they called themselves "specialists" - weren't posting, they were learning and getting feedback on writing style. They were said to be constantly monitoring the viral success of their approach, tweaking and adjusting to maximise retweets and the spread of the message. The team is also said to have had a list of US public holidays, and appropriate content ready to go so they would blend in.

I changed my mind on Brexit but not because of anything I read on social media. I found the constant arguing between leave and remain to be tiresome and the nastiness being trotted out online via social media was just ridiculous.

I hate social media and I never believe anything I read online no matter the source.

Did Russia try and influence Brexit? I have no idea and have no particular concern about them using MN. Surely EVERYONE should question the validity of everything you read on social media?

I assumed Claig finally got the banhammer? They reminded me of the one from property who was constantly predicting a crash no matter what the thread was actually about, he finally got banned and then popped up on a different forum to annoy them posting the same old stuff..

It was like a broken record.

There's one at the moment on those threads @InfiniteSheldon - she's a nasty piece of work.