Publication of threads outside of Mumsnet

[thinkfast]

Hi Mumsnet HQ

Can you please clarify your policy in relation to publication of Talk threads outside of the site.

As I'm sure you are aware, publications such as the Daily Mail have picked up threads and published their contents. Whilst I appreciate that this is essentially a public forum, can you please let us users know whether or not you condone this kind of "outside" publication.

I note that your website terms of use essentially provide that the content of the site belongs to you and that it may not be reproduced for commercial purposes without your express approval.

If you don't condone other media publishing certain threads, are you putting in place any measures or taking any action to try to stop it (and if so, what)?

If you do condone these kinds of publication, could you please give some thought to putting in place some kind of prominent health warning to and protections for posters to let them know that threads may be subject to use and publication in this way?

As I am sure you will appreciate, many of the threads on Talk contain highly personal, sensitive information - most typically about a poster's private family life, on which posters are asking for help or advice and which they wouldn't dream of ever sending into the Daily Mail or the like for publication for commercial gain or otherwise. My view is that if our threads are at risk of publication outside of Mumsnet, we should all be publicly and prominently warned of that fact, as new users, less frequent users, or those that don't read the Daily Mail might not be aware of the risk.

Many thanks

I agree in principle. Shitty newspapers trawling for stories on forums is low. Trouble is, is that MN is a public forum that anyone can read. Even if the content wasn’t picked up by the DM or whoever, it can be read by anyone. You are posting sensitive, personal information into a public, open space. Always worth considering when posting things of a personal nature.

Maybe we should ask MN to paste "Fuck Dauly Mail" on all threads as a watermark?

I imagine the amount of revenue Mumsnet will make from the Daily Fail providing traffic back and forth between the two, will be too lucrative for them to say no to.

I agree with your comments - especially from the commercial perspective, but would still be interested to hear MNHQ's take on it and I believe strongly that posters should have a warning. It's clear from many posts that they are from fragile, troubled or desperate individuals and I believe they should be specifically warned of the risk

MN have clarified their position quite a few times already on similar threads

Whether mumsnet condone or condemn it is irrelevant; it is a public forum and anyone is free to quote however much they want. Daily Mail aren't hiding where it came from and are usually even naming the individual posters.

Many posters mistake MN for a private, secret space of vourse.

MN actively share links to threads on Facebook etc; it’s in their interest to publicise the threads, more traffic to the site means more revenue

This has been done to death, MNHQ aren't going to stop threads being lifted, it's not really in their interest to do so and if posters don't want to be identified they should not post very identifying details on a public forum. Same as anywhere on the internet, if it's public anyone can pick it up and do whatever they like with it.

I think MN sold the shark a long time ago.

The reason you see so many folks worrying about making 'outing' posts and comments, is partially because of the DM lifting threads for publication. I've wanted to post things to ask for input on several subjects, but haven't because I wouldn't want to risk them hitting the press. It's part and parcel of posting on a public forum.

Sorry if it's been done to death Samewitches can you please direct me to MN's previous response on this issue as I haven't been able to find it

It’s pretty easy to alter facts enough to still get advice on the pertinent point without being “outed”

This is clear on MN in the terms
They own whatever posters put on here and can do whatever they like with it

If I understand the law correctly (which I may not), newspapers can use a certain amount of copyrighted material without the permission of the copyright holder (in this case MN) for the purposes of reporting the news. This "fair use" principle exists to ensure that people like politicians can't just censor newspapers by claiming copyright infringement.

It may be a stretch to use "fair use" for clickbait on the DM, but the DM would say that they're simply reporting the opinions of real people on matters that are of importance to the general public. And they have a point. Look at it the other way. Would we want to live in a country where newspapers could be banned from reporting what people talk about in public?

If MN being on the DM is the price to pay for newspapers being allowed to publish racist tweets made by UKippers or misogynistic ones made by Momentum-friendly MP wannabees, then so be it.

I'm not anti freedom of speech at all. I'm all for it and absolutely believe in the freedom of the media. I just think it would be fair to have the MN policy clarified and specifically notified to users as part of the ts and cs, if that is how MNHQ which to use the content

Hi all,

Thanks for all your comments on this thread - as a couple of posters have said, this is something that comes up fairly often, but we're always happy to clarify our position.

The first thing to say is that we definitely don't pass threads like this to the Mail or other sites and we certainly don't have any financial arrangement with them. And in fact, the traffic that comes from the DM is negligible as a percentage of our overall visits.

Unfortunately, though, there’s not a huge amount we can do about other publishers lifting threads like this - they'd likely claim Fair Use and that would be difficult to challenge. It's one of the downsides of Mumsnet being an open site, and as always, we remind everyone that this is a public forum, searchable by Google, legally linkable to - and quotable by - all and sundry. On the upside, this openness means Mumsnet is available for free to anyone who needs advice 24-7. It also means fresh faces, a variety of points of view, and the wisdom that comes from a very sizeable crowd. But it's definitely worth being a bit circumspect with identifiable stuff when you are posting, and making use of the name-change facility if that seems useful.

We find that fellow MNers will often pipe up if they think the OP is giving away a bit too much, which is great. A really prominent warning would, we think, deter people from seeking the help and advice they really need, and that would run against our mission to make parents' lives easier - but we'll look at adding a reminder along these lines to our FAQs, which is where many new posters come before they post.

We hope that this goes some way to explaining things our end - and thanks again for raising it.

Well said, sandyMNHQ.

@sandymumsnet even though it might seem obvious, maybe there could be a page of advice about how to make sure your details aren’t too identifiable?

Thank you sandymumsnet that explains your position clearly and if you could revisit your FAQs to give some guidance to newcomers I think that would be great

It’s not even just the daily mail. The Wind the bobbin up thread has been in the Manchester Evenung news today!

The warning should be that the media can and do lift threads without notice, discussion, permissions. Nothing goes on with or at MNHQ, it just happens completely out of the blue. I'd to see that in writing on FAQs, yes.