Paying for Mumsnet

[BIWI]

There have been eleventy billion threads (only a slight exaggeration) about the advertising on MN becoming more and more intrusive. And calls, inevitably, for it to stop.

We all KNOW - we're not stupid - that MN is a free-so-use site, so needs to take advertising to keep going.

However, lots of us on the various threads have also said that we'd be prepared to pay for an ad-free version of the site.

So you'd run two sites - one with advertising, which is free, and one which costs [x amount] per month/year.

Have you actually tried running your figures and working out how much revenue you'd get from people who are prepared to pay, and different scenarios, e.g. If x% pay y amount, we'll achieve x revenue?

Because it feels every time this issue is raised that you just pat us on the head and tell us that you're 'looking into it'

Do you think MNhQ will address problems with intrusive ads that make a site slow and unusable? I don't. You'll be politely pointed towards the ad free, Extra Areas version of MN for a fee.

It might come as a surprise how much accountable MN will have to be towards its paying customers. Racism and disablism left up? Reports about dodgy stuff overnight left to volunteers? Might have to smarten up the moderation.

An ad free version of Mumsnet is the unique content

Content provided for free by those who post on the site, you want to sell something which is provided for free by the community, you think we would pay you for the work that we do

Wonder how that will fly with the advertises, Miaow.

We've had a great idea! The people with disposable income can pay not to see your ads! The ones with no money to spare will have your Aspirational Knickers emblazoned across their screens though! Good, eh? Took us aaagggges to come up with that one.

I use an adblocker browser on my phone. Sorted.

I won't pay - I can't afford to - which is a shame as I have got some great support from here. I currently use an ad blocker on my browser which blocks the ads (and is free).

Actually, that Guardian one isn't so bad. I was bracing myself for one of those annoying overhanging things but the fact it does scroll up as you scroll down makes it okay for me. I don't want

A lot of sites do ad-free subscription vs free, ad-supported versions and do it well.

Doing it badly, IMO, is repeated, intrusive requests to subscribe, poor management of ads on the ad supported version (the ads should not be too intrusive or annoying, slow down the site or contain dodgy content), anything which attempts to shame users using an adblocker (this makes me use the adblocker to block the warning, or stop using the site entirely.) Sites which use a subscription/donation model well tend to have a small nicely fitting in button or text-only note saying that an ad free version is available and to click for more information.

I've linked to it before but if you do want to work with users who currently use adblockers, here's the most popular adblock's guide to getting your site's ads automatically whitelisted. adblockplus.org/acceptable-ads

Lastly although Patreon isn't really appropriate in this case it could be that you look at popular Patreon subscriber benefits and perhaps take some ideas from there WRT extra benefits for subscribers.

I don't think mumsnet should ever abandon its free to use concept, and I don't think this is being suggested, just an optional extra for those who are interested.

@Saucery

I do think the content is worth subscription. I just don't want to risk any rl info being accessed. Even when deregistered the Insight stuff is still there and never deleted despite repeated requests. I don't think member security is taken as seriously as it should be. Be sad not to use the site when subscription brought in, but hey ho.

Hi Saucery - not quite sure what you mean by Insight stuff never deleted - could you explain?

@Saucery

Do you think MNhQ will address problems with intrusive ads that make a site slow and unusable? I don't. You'll be politely pointed towards the ad free, Extra Areas version of MN for a fee.

It might come as a surprise how much accountable MN will have to be towards its paying customers. Racism and disablism left up? Reports about dodgy stuff overnight left to volunteers? Might have to smarten up the moderation.

Well it's always a balancing act but, as said, we are working right now on improving the ad situation and I can guarantee we'll be losing some of the more intrusive formats over the next few weeks and months

We are also looking at buying an outsourced solution to improve site speed.

I don't want to over promise and under deliver (!) but I think over the next few weeks and months, the user experience wrt to ads and speed will improve considerably for all users, no subscription required

There's always going to be some dispute about some of our moderation calls as we do try to err on the side of free speech where possible and not everyone's in agreement with that policy I know. But we do have an excellent, paid team of moderators and some very clear guidance on what we'll tolerate. Obviously we're not perfect, there are grey areas which emerge all the time and we will make some mistakes but in general - and this is born out by research - our moderation is very highly rated versus other forums.

@MiaowTheCat

I wouldn't pay. I don't think a lot of the demographic who don't have much money and don't parent according to the MN list of righteousness would be likely to pay to be told how shite they're doing.

Miaow - totally understand that - but I have to say your response does beg the question of why you come, never mind pay for MN!

@peaceout

An ad free version of Mumsnet is the unique content

Content provided for free by those who post on the site, you want to sell something which is provided for free by the community, you think we would pay you for the work that we do

Yes much of that content is indeed kindly provided for free. But obviously there is a lot of cost involved in hosting, moderating, securing user generated content as well as producing non-user content.

@MiaowTheCat

Someone's got to remind the world there's life beyond Waitrose!

Haha - Lidl is one of MN's biggest advertisers! (Don't think Waitrose ever have... possibly feel they don't need to )

I have to say, I mus t have become a master at ingnoring adverts because I don't seem to see them
I'm normally in the phone/tablet though. The times when I'm on the computer, they DO annoy me (but I suspect that if I was using it more, I would just tune them out too).

Sorry to the advertisers....

@BertieBotts

Actually, that Guardian one isn't so bad. I was bracing myself for one of those annoying overhanging things but the fact it does scroll up as you scroll down makes it okay for me. I don't want

A lot of sites do ad-free subscription vs free, ad-supported versions and do it well.

Doing it badly, IMO, is repeated, intrusive requests to subscribe, poor management of ads on the ad supported version (the ads should not be too intrusive or annoying, slow down the site or contain dodgy content), anything which attempts to shame users using an adblocker (this makes me use the adblocker to block the warning, or stop using the site entirely.) Sites which use a subscription/donation model well tend to have a small nicely fitting in button or text-only note saying that an ad free version is available and to click for more information.

I've linked to it before but if you do want to work with users who currently use adblockers, here's the most popular adblock's guide to getting your site's ads automatically whitelisted. adblockplus.org/acceptable-ads

Lastly although Patreon isn't really appropriate in this case it could be that you look at popular Patreon subscriber benefits and perhaps take some ideas from there WRT extra benefits for subscribers.

I don't think mumsnet should ever abandon its free to use concept, and I don't think this is being suggested, just an optional extra for those who are interested.

Thanks for that Bertie, very useful - we'll look at all those.

The ideology has a bit of a conservative ring to it. I'm guessing you vote Tory OP?

You couldn't be further from the truth if you tried!

I really don't see why you think I might be a Tory. All I've suggested is that those of who don't want to see the advertising would stump up cash for the privilege of using Mumsnet.

And for the record (although I think I've said this elsewhere) I do already use ad blocker, but I would prefer not to, as that is taking away potential revenue from MNHQ, and I think what is provided here is worth paying for.

For those who don't think it is, I do wonder why you're here, if you think it's gobshite, stream of consciousness asinine bullshit

@NameThatPrune

I have posted this on another thread, sorry to repeat.. but I recently noticed that the MN logo is now on packets endorsing DC ice creams, (which gave me a wierd sensation of my online life popping up IRL )

Anyway while you are about HQ, is product endorsement another revenue generator that will enable you to tackle advertising bother/ improve the user experience? (I missed it if you've already been talking about it somewhere on here).

I'm also nosily interested to know what HQ's criteria for the 'MN rated' product endorsement is (...does a MNer have to have posted about it?) and what the limits are to what the MN endorsement can be applied to.

Yes has been for a quite a while now - we have a panel of 10,000 odd testers (who get free stuff!) and products that get high approval ratings can license a badge for physical use. You can sign up here

Justine, when I was on the Insight Panel as well as a poster I continued to get emails from the former despite repeated requests after the hacking to remove all my details, every last one of them, from your databases. They are probably still sending them, but the Yahoo address I had is no longer in use. I know they are separate pools of info but from a security point of view not being able to delete them at your end doesn't fill me with confidence that a bank account or PayPal details would be safe with MN.

The moderation is ok here. Overstretched, I'd say, but for the most part they get it right. Paying customers are going to want it to be perfect though (well, some of them!) so I can see workload going up when staff have to deal with complaints.
The Night Watch is inadequate for a paid service.

I would pay for an ad-free version. I actually do use an ad-blocker at the moment so miss most of the ads, but I spend time on MN and find it useful so would be happy to contribute to its running and upkeep.

To the posters saying we generate the content - sure we do but surely you also realise MN pays for servers and hosting and moderators and such right? Think of how difficult it would be to recreate the community (as flawed as it is) if MN disappeared?

@Saucery

Justine, when I was on the Insight Panel as well as a poster I continued to get emails from the former despite repeated requests after the hacking to remove all my details, every last one of them, from your databases. They are probably still sending them, but the Yahoo address I had is no longer in use. I know they are separate pools of info but from a security point of view not being able to delete them at your end doesn't fill me with confidence that a bank account or PayPal details would be safe with MN.

The moderation is ok here. Overstretched, I'd say, but for the most part they get it right. Paying customers are going to want it to be perfect though (well, some of them!) so I can see workload going up when staff have to deal with complaints.
The Night Watch is inadequate for a paid service.

Hi Saucery,
Will certainly check out the insight panel stuff and get back to you (will you mail partnerships@mumsnet with the email address in question?) - We do have strict rules on the data we hold - who has access and when it is deleted.
I'm not sure I agree the nightwatch is inadequate - very few if any complaints of late - obviously they'll miss things now and then but humans do. Plus a subs version of MN would be likely to be an offer around no ads and extra features (not extra moderation).

@AudacityJones

I would pay for an ad-free version. I actually do use an ad-blocker at the moment so miss most of the ads, but I spend time on MN and find it useful so would be happy to contribute to its running and upkeep.

To the posters saying we generate the content - sure we do but surely you also realise MN pays for servers and hosting and moderators and such right? Think of how difficult it would be to recreate the community (as flawed as it is) if MN disappeared?

Thanks Audacity - good to know.

No, I won't be emailing any details of that account. I have moved house since then, different mobile no. etc. It was an example of inadequate data protection and a lack of joined up processes for managing that data. The situation may well have improved since then, but I won't be chancing it with financial details.

The 'extra features' are disenfranchising poorer members of the site. I realise you can do this, that lots of sites do this, it's perfectly legal, your site-your rules and all that jazz. You want and need to make money out of this and that is reasonable. However, you won't then be able to claim MN is for everyone as you will have put in a two tier system based on ability to pay (leaving aside whiny suspicious baggages like myself who just don't trust you with financial details).
The minute you add anything that non paying members can't access you are saying they are not equal in your eyes and that money buys privilege, even on a chat site.

But it's not about adding anything that non-paying members can't access! Are you being deliberately obtuse?

The only think paying members wouldn't be able to access would be the advertising.

How rude, BIWI Justine herself has mentioned extra content.

'Extra features' at 14.17 today.

Extra features if you pay? I don't like the sound of that.