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MNHQ here: Shelter's campaign for longer rental contracts

190 replies

FinnMumsnet · 16/02/2017 14:54

Hello,

Shelter, whom we’re currently featuring as a Guest Campaign, are calling on the Housing Minister, Gavin Barwell, to give renters the option of secure five-year contracts. You can find out more and add your voice to their campaign here.

Shelter explain: “Renters would have the opportunity to stay in their home for a minimum of five years, but they wouldn’t be locked in. Renters with five year contracts would be able to leave their home at any time by giving two months’ notice. If their family grows or a new job opportunity comes up, they may well want to move. But if they don’t, they can be certain about where they’ll be living for the foreseeable future.

“Five-year tenancies would also give landlords more security, reducing periods of vacancy and lost rent. They would still be able to sell their home if they needed to.”

Last year, Shelter received this email from 'Rachel,' a Mumsnet user who had heard about the campaign; Rachel explains the impact that unstable and insecure renting is having on her and her young son’s life.

We know from discussions on-site that insecure private rents are an issue affecting many Mumsnet users -- and with 87% of respondents to our rent survey last year saying they would prefer to buy in an ideal world, we also know that, for an increasing number, private renting is the only option. It also seems to be an issue majorities of Mumsnet users would like to see action on:: our 2015 General Election survey found 80% support for tougher regulation of private landlords, alongside funds for tougher enforcement by Local Authorities, and 75% support for incentivising landlords through the tax system to offer secure, fixed-rate, long-term rentals. Both proposals had net backing from supporters of all political parties.

Feel free to find out more about Shelter’s campaign here.

Thanks,
MNHQ

OP posts:
Mrsfrumble · 27/02/2017 23:30

If landlords are all so well informed about tenancy law, why are there so many threads here on MN (from both landlords and tenants) about landlords who just don't understand that they can't just let themselves into their tenants home without permission? It may seem like a petty issue if you're not on the receiving end of it, but tenancy law agrees that tenants are entitled to privacy and safety. We even had it from our property manager during this tenancy, who blithely emailed me and told me that if I wasn't available to oversee an inspection on the following day, not to worry because she'd just let herself in!

As regards a property being substandard, not all issues are visible to the naked eye during a 10 or 20 minute viewing! Problems like faulty wiring or ventilation that aren't immediately apparent to a layperson will be overlooked; that's why people who are buying a property engage a professional surveyor.

We couldn't see the damage to the external wall that causes our damp problem, as we're on the 3rd floor and the cracks on the coursing aren't visible from ground level. We initially thought the mould that appeared was due to the wall being uninsulated; and it wasn't until DH removed the fixed panel concealing the toilet cistern that we realised the extent of the issue.
Fortunately the letting agent responded promptly and so far some remedial work has been done. But it is a big inconvenience, as we have small children and only one bathroom, and I suspect the owners are weighing up the cost of getting the wall fixed properly against losing rent if we have to move out while the work is done. It would have been better for everyone if the problem had been detected and repaired between tenancies.

We're not daft or entitled. But we pay a lot of rent (London) and don't want to be scrubbing mould of our bathroom walls every 2 weeks.

HelenaDove · 28/02/2017 01:36

" You should try going into a housing association property which was brand new six months ago and now still has to be near on totally re-furnished before it can be re-let"

"HA properties dont come furnished."

And as for damages to things like plumbing pipes A lot of damage has been done in HA homes by the dodgy plumbing companies they use because they are cheaper.

Coolgirl21 · 28/02/2017 07:00

Yes agree it would have been better if the fault had been detected and rectified before. I am glad the property manager acted promptly. And hope its soon sorted

Coolgirl21 · 28/02/2017 07:20

I would like to see more information on the eviction notices
Section 21 in many cases is used for trashed property and rent arrears as its usually the quickest route
This should be recorded on the forms the courts hold a vast amount of information regarding evictions. I would like an independent body to analysis this on a regular basis.
I often talk to the office and they say the social sector are always evicting
I also think shelter should work with landlords to improve the sector but as their funds and jobs depend on slagging landlords off they wont
Most of their reporting is very much one sided for max effect and to keep the donations rolling in

Redpoll · 28/02/2017 13:00

If anything the eviction procedures should be streamlined, and in some cases (but not all) speeded up.

Cases of Anti social behaviour, damage to property etc should done and settled in two weeks IMO, just as it is in the United States.

The country is too soft as it is- A bigger stick now again will normally benefit the majority rather than the minority.

Shelter1 · 07/03/2017 13:14

Hi everyone,

Thank you very much for all your comments and feedback on the campaign. It’s really helpful for us to hear your thoughts and consider how we can make our campaign messages clearer and more effective. We are aware that a number of people asked specific questions on this thread, so we wanted to respond directly to those.

For those interested, we do have a longer FAQs page for the campaign, which should cover off any major questions you still have. It is available here: blog.shelter.org.uk/2017/02/longer-rental-contracts-how-would-they-work-faqs/

Below, we’ve answered the main questions you had about the campaign. We’ll try and update you again if there’s anything else you’d like to know.

Many thanks,

Shelter team

--

Questions about our proposal

Overall, there were requests for more clarity about the detail of our proposal. Beyond the FAQs linked above, this blog post provides a good overview of the proposal and links to the in-depth policy report which informs our policy recommendations.

Q: A couple of users asked why the campaign is necessary, given that landlords can legally already offer 5 year tenancies is they want.
A: While this is true, the reality of the situation is that longer tenancies with a rolling break clause are not generally available in the market. This is despite the fact that 1/3 of landlords say they like the idea of longer tenancies and a further 1/3 say they’d be interested if they saw them working in practice. So while it is currently legally possible for tenants to get a longer tenancy, in reality they aren’t available. This campaign aims to change the default position, so that renters get the security they need by default. This is particularly important for families with children – a staggering 1 in 4 of whom now privately rent.

Q: Don’t lots of renters want shorter contracts?
A: Shorter, flexible contracts do benefit some tenants. That is why in our proposal we include a 2 month break clause, where the tenant would be able to leave at any time, so long as they provide 2 months’ notice. However, the number of families in the PRS is higher than ever – 1 in 4 families now privately rent, as opposed to 1 in 10 just ten years ago. Longer minimum tenancies would give all tenants the option of staying longer, even if they ended up not wanting to. 7 in 10 renters say they’d like these longer minimum tenancies.

As one user posted on this thread, ‘the only reason I would want a longer term tenancy is so that I couldn’t be kicked out for requesting repairs’. This is good example of how long tenancies could benefit both tenants who still want flexibility, and landlords. With suitable security, tenants are more likely to report issues earlier and have them resolved before they develop into a bigger problem.

Q: Someone asked if this campaign suggesting that rental price would be fixed for the five years.
A: Our campaign doesn’t advocate for a fixed rent over the five years. Instead, we propose that within a five-year tenancy, rents couldn’t go up by more than inflation each year. This would give renting families more certainty in planning their finances and they would be protected from being evicted through the backdoor by a massive rent hike.

Q: What is the tenants decide to stop paying rent or caused damage to the property?
A: Landlords would still be able to regain possession of their property within a tenancy when they had a good reason. Serious rent arrears would be one of the reasons why the landlord would be able to regain possession before the 5-year period is up, as would causing damage to the property. Someone on the thread suggested making the ‘no-fault’ eviction period longer, but shorten it for ‘bad’ tenants – this is essentially what we are proposing.

Q: Won’t taking away a landlord’s ability to remove bad tenants lead to landlords selling-up and exiting the market, which would reduce available housing?
A: As with rent arrears, there would still be a number of reasons why a landlord would be able to get back possession of their property, such as anti-social behaviour. But longer minimum tenancies provide stability and security to all tenants who abide by the law.

Q: What is someone inherited a house and wanted to sell the house a year or so later (but not immediately)?
A: The landlord would be able to break the contract if they needed the property back i.e. if they wanted to move in themselves or needed to sell. But the landlord would have to provide proof that they were definitely going to sell the property.

Q: What happens if the landlord goes bust?
A: If a landlord defaults on their mortgage payments and their mortgage lender repossesses their property, then they become the tenant’s legal landlord. They would be able to regain possession of the property at the point that they wanted to sell it.

Other questions

Q: Someone raised the situation of tenants having to wait for eviction to get council help.
A: This is something we are all too aware of through our services - our advisers in all areas of the country report this happening. There is statutory guidance which tells councils they shouldn’t do this, and this was reiterated by a letter from the Housing Minister last year. Unfortunately, however, it still happens routinely. We have recently been campaigning on the Homelessness Reduction Bill and had hoped the legislation would address this practice – we highlighted this issue at every opportunity in our briefings for MPs and Lords. We were unable to get a commitment within the legislation, but secured a commitment from government to continue working with charities, local authorities and landlord groups to try and find a solution.

Q: Someone mentioned the ridiculous fees imposed by agents.
A: This is something Shelter has been campaigning on for many years and we were delighted when the Chancellor announced in the Autumn Statement that the government will be banning these fees to tenants. This was a huge win for Shelter and for all private tenants. You can find more information in this blog post: blog.shelter.org.uk/2016/11/government-to-ban-letting-agency-fees/

Redpoll · 07/03/2017 19:49

Shelter,
I think what you propose is reasonable to a certain extent but if you as a tenant want security then why should it be still one sided should the tenant want to leave? If the matter of security is paramount then the level of commitment should parallel on both sides

You would also give credibility to your cause if you supported swifter evictions for problem tenants such as those which commit anti social behaviour- That's often causes as much discomfort for other renters in the area as it does to the landlord which is has to deal with them.

alreadytaken · 08/03/2017 13:50

when is the ban on letting agent fees happening, if ever?

Do you agree that landlords should be able to evict tenants who don't pay or trash the place or act illegally (drug dealing, for example) more rapidly?

Why are you not campaigning for proper protection against revenge eviction, when you know the law isnt working?

charlestrenet · 08/03/2017 21:55

Redpoll are you seriously suggesting that tenants should be liable for rent for a five year term ie have less freedom to move home than home owners do?

Redpoll · 08/03/2017 22:43

Redpoll are you seriously suggesting that tenants should be liable for rent for a five year term ie have less freedom to move home than home owners do?

No I am not but shelters ideas is all one sided. So you want a landlord to commit to 5 Years but tenant can still go with two months notice.

You want commitment because you are a tenant and want your children to have stability schooling for example but still be able to piss off on a whim.

I think the assault on landlords will end up going too far IMO, as I have said in earlier postings if you did not have them at present the country will be in a pickle.

No good relying on social housing stock and with all the refugees flooding in there will never be enough to go round.

I am also not speaking as a landlord but a business owner who works in the sector. I see it from all sides. The problems of low security exist in high value areas where rental demand high, so landlords are setting demand high which is primarily London. The other end of the spectrum is low income deprived areas where tenant turnover is high normally by occupants poorly managing their tenancies. Both create a power vacuum of in many cases it is the infants which suffer.

This is my thought- If you want commitment as a tenant, then you give the landlord commitment by staying. Unless there is good reason in return the Landlord will set agreeable rent levels consumerate with the property for the five years and repairs should be managed by independent third parties to allow an even playing field.

Just my thoughts as someone who works all over the UK maintaining housing across a wide spectrum of ownership, and not from a landlord prespective.

Redpoll · 08/03/2017 23:01

Do you agree that landlords should be able to evict tenants who don't pay or trash the place or act illegally (drug dealing, for example) more rapidly

In a nutshell; no shelter won't back that processas they regard tenants in all cases as the victims no matter the circumstances.

If you walk into a shop and walk off with goods and don't pay its shoplifting-A criminal offence. If you dont pay rent for what ever reason it's a civil matter. Can't quite work that out.

I worked abroad and even some what you could call well developed/democratic countries have some pretty strict rulings on the conduct of tenants as well as landlords.

charlestrenet · 09/03/2017 00:18

I am quite alarmed that you say you work in the sector yet appear to have no knowledge of the rules that operate within it. Redress for breach of any contract is a matter of civil law, not criminal, and the same enforcement methods apply across the board. Entering into a contract to create a legal interest in land is in no way comparable to stealing from a shop.

And if you don't mean that tenants should be liable for five years' worth of rent when they enter into a tenancy agreement, then what do you mean?

charlestrenet · 09/03/2017 00:21

Also, Shelter have already said that under their proposal landlords will be able to evict tenants who breach the agreement so not sure why you are stating otherwise.

alreadytaken · 09/03/2017 14:57

can take 40 weeks to evict a bad tenant, if Shelter backed a more rapid process for this landlords would be more inclined to offer longer contracts.

my questions were addressed to Shelter, not to redpoll. At the moment the law doesnt work well either for good landlords or good tenants, it does for bad landlords and bad tenants. Shelter ought to recognise that.

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