Sunday Times story today about Mumsnet having to reveal posters' names

[BIWI]

Without going into specific details, obviously, there's clearly a huge issue here about libel/responsibility for our posts.

I wonder if it would be a good idea for MNHQ to reiterate the current situation, so that people appreciate what they shouldn't (and what they can) post?

Advance search gives no result for either name which suggests that either they signed up/named changed just to make those possibly defamatory comments or that MN has deleted their posts in their entirety (without leaving any trace at all - not even a "message deleted" which seems unlikely).

I've read a thread lately asking for bathroom advice. Various posters saying B&Q bathrooms are rubbish, others saying Homebase are better, others saying no Homebase are rubbish. Is this kind of talk libellous? We'd better get back to the kitchen and gag ourselves at this rate. I understand criminal speculation issues but people exchanging opinions about large companies (who will at times treat customers dreadfully ) I cannot get upset about.

From MN Terms and Conditions:
You represent, warrant, and covenant that you will not submit any User Content that:
...
. impersonates another or is unlawful, threatening, abusive, ilibelous, defamatory,nvasive of privacy or publicity rights, obscene, harassing or otherwise objectionable;

and in the privacy policy:
We do not, as a clear and overarching rule, pass on your information, unless you specifically consent to us doing so or we are specifically required to by law.

Maybe MN could spell out in one of those documents a bit more what that actually means but the thing is, people typically don't read that stuff, do they?

tbh if you are commenting online, you should either

(a)use your full real name EVERYWHERE and take the consequences
or
(b) use a different username for every site and sign up with throwaway webmail accounts. Also use multiple usernames when making identifying posts (geographical areas etc.)

Using the same username on different sites is a terrible idea

yes beware of saying anything even remotely negative about many of the private schools ! they are all over mumsnet watching out and threatening legal action if posts aren't immediately deleted.

Iggi you can say what you like as long as you can back it up. if you say x company's bathroom is rubbish, it needs to be because in your experience you had one and the shower leaked, bath had a crack, taps didn't turn on and off etc., not because your ex-boyfriend works for the company as a bathroom fitter......

Various posters saying B&Q bathrooms are rubbish, others saying Homebase are better, others saying no Homebase are rubbish. Is this kind of talk libellous?

No because libel is an individual, not an organisation. If someone posted that the manager at their local DIY store (and naming him/her) was a thief who had their hand in the till and a paedophile too - that would be libel. Assuming it was untrue, of course.

Libel is making untrue statements which could damage someone's reputation.

I don't think you should be allowed to be taken to court for anything written online.

I own this computer but the IP address for the building is shared and could be any one from the many people in these apartments that has posted.

The only data Mumsnet have is the IP. I always use a throwaway email to post for added privacy and regularly change my username.

I've not posted anything bad but do post personal things so I make sure I'm not identifiable.

Mumsnet is a public forum and it's important not to forget that.

No, there are lots of comments about lots of public schools which are terribly negative and rooted in gossip (vaguely remembers one about Westminster and SPGS).

Different organisations (and schools) take differing views about whether and how to attempt to manage what is published about them, and I do form different opinions following certain approaches.

I'm not sure what I think when it's an individual, because it must be very different when it's personal.

I don't think you should be allowed to be taken to court for anything written online.

I disagree. Are you saying that people should be able to say whatever they damn well like online, whether their accusations are true or not?

I don't think you should be allowed to be taken to court for anything written online.

Well that has to be one of the stupidest things ever written online.

What about death threats, cybercrime, bullying? Of course you should be able to be taken to court! The things we say have consequences, by whatever medium we say them. If someone were to threaten to murder you, would you be less upset if they sent it via an email than if they sent you a text? They've still threatened to kill you. The idea that somehow writing things online has no consequence is ludicrous!

I don't think you should be allowed to be taken to court for anything written online.

Regardless of what you think user (please change your name!), that's totally irrelevant. This is a LEGAL issue.

I think this is actually a very good wake up call for some posters who seem to think this site is a chat with friends.

I NC every week now, to avoid being outed by the DM or anyone else, and post very little compared to ten years ago.

It is my understanding (not a lawyer, mind) that if I report my experience ('my child was utterly miserable at School X' because they had not effective anti-bullying policy in place' for instance) I do not leave myself open to legal action, is that right?

".... because the Head was a lazy git who did nothing about it" otoh...

It's really not that difficult to engage your brain before you post. "Mr X has always come across to me as a bit arrogant and rude" is a totally different statement to "Mr X is incompetent, rude and stole his granny's life savings".

I don't think you should be allowed to be taken to court for anything written online.

Of course you should if it is genuinely libellous or bullying, or ruins the reputation of someone just out of spite (e.g. someone who has ended a relationship having their ex-partner claim they are riddled with herpes or something!)

The huge problem with the internet is that it gives anonymity - some sites have the most vile and disgusting comments on them - remarks that I'm sure the poster would not DARE make face-to-face. It is a coward's way of "criticism" (and a lot of it is personal, and nothing to do with service provided etc). Are you really saying that these people should not be called to task when this is appropriate and possible?

There are loads of things that you can be prosecuted for posting them online, user: hate speech, inciting violence on top of the whole libel/defamation thing.
Inform yourself.

MN is a public forum, what we write is owned by MNHQ, not by us.
Be aware.

You can say you don't like something as long as it's clear that it is a personal opinion too, and not presented as a fact.

Also, libel is defamation in the spoken word.

Defamation is the written word.

I believe.

I searched Blackfairy7 and Skohl but it brought up no posts at all, not even threads where posts have been deleted.

In fairness the surgeon has the right to recourse if he feels his professional name has been besmirched
Mn is a open forum and the comments are widely read and replicated in other media
I do think mn posters have an informality in tone/content as if talking to friends when in fact posts are open,visible and there are repercussions

Previously, mn posters were identified after dispute with john hemming mp

As an aside many professions have guidelines about social media
BMA social media guidelines

Finally, Tatiana you might want to get your comment deleted it's uncalled for

Other way round. Libel is permanent defamation, slander is non-permanent. So a TV programme or film, letter, journalism or internet post would be libel.

A megaphone at speakers corner would be slander.

No that's libel and slander. Slander is spoken libel written.

Defamation and libel are slightly different.

libel is written....like a label!

almost the same, label...libel, libel...label

Libel, slander, defamation....

I shall just stick to 'If you cannot say anything nice, don't say anything at all'.

will I, hell!!