Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Site stuff

Join our Innovation Panel to try new features early and help make Mumsnet better.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

MNHQ here: Tell us what you think about the Child Maintenance Service

175 replies

BojanaMumsnet · 08/08/2016 10:56

Hello

The House of Commons Work and Pensions Committee has launched an inquiry into the Child Maintenance Service (CMS) and its effectiveness in ensuring regular payments for children and will consider recommendations to improve the service overall.

The Committee is inviting submissions addressing the following points:

  • How well is the CMS performing for children and parents? How could it be improved?

  • What problems do parents face – both for the parent with care and the non-resident parent?

  • Are levels of child maintenance set correctly?

  • What powers does the CMS have and how effectively are they used? How effective is enforcement action?

  • What will happen to CSA arrears or unresolved cases when parents move to the new CMS?

  • How might the CMS deal with any weaknesses or loopholes in the old CSA system?

  • Are there any opportunities for Government departments to work together to ensure regular payment?

  • Is there any international evidence on ways of ensuring parents regularly contribute to their children’s maintenance payments?

Please share your thoughts and experiences below, or if you prefer, you can respond directly to the Committee via this link.

Please note that the deadline for submissions is Monday 5 September 2016.

Thanks
MNHQ

OP posts:
BluePitchFork · 10/08/2016 18:58

this is just madness it seems.
with most topics you see at least a few answers in the lines of 'filled in form, sent it off, all went smoothly'
not here...

ilovesprouts · 10/08/2016 19:35

Waste of spaceHmm

TheGruffaloMother · 10/08/2016 19:51

Was always going to be the case Blue. People go to the CMS when the civilised route hasn't worked...the NRP is having to be legally ordered to pay so is very unlikely to pay more than the minimum. And the minimum is a meagre percentage of their wage. So even if it's set up easily and the ex pays on time and in full (as in my case) it's still a system set up primarily in the interests of the NRP, not the child they're supposed to be supporting. But as many above have pointed out, they then completely lack teeth when things don't go as planned.

FreyaMikaelson · 10/08/2016 20:17

My experience with the CMS is about a week old currently - I have an open case with the CSA and I got a letter last week to say it was closing. So far I've had to:

  • partake in a nonsensical call with Child Maintenance Options to get "permission" to open a case with the CMS, which included rehashing the circumstances of a six-year-old relationship break-up and having to jump through several hoops to prove that a family-based arrangement is not possible (I am not in contact with my ex-partner)
  • then spend 40 minutes on the phone to CMS to give them all the information the CSA already has, and be asked questions such as what type of work my ex does and what he might be earning, despite the fact that (once again) I am not in contact him. I paid £20 for the privilege of applying, which the adviser reiterated does not offer any promise of actually being successful in getting him to pay (so what exactly have I paid for?)
  • then today I received a letter in order to pass on my bank details to my ex, because this is now the only way I can receive maintenance but apparently the phone advisers aren't allowed to take them. On this letter, my ex-partner is named incorrectly (think John instead of James)
  • I call the CMS, who "reassure" me that the name on file is correct, and the letter is wrong because an adviser manually entered the details. Apparently it doesn't matter if I sign a consent form for them to disclose information to an incorrectly named person. He tells me to fill in the form completely including my address details so that they can link it to my file - I query this because the letter clearly states that all the details I complete will be passed to my ex. He insists only the bank details will be passed on. I read him the letter and the declaration which state all information will be passed on. He still insists they won't be. I say I am not at all comfortable completing my details, he concedes that I can leave the details blank but should write a statement declaring why.

ONE WEEK and already this is farcical, I have no confidence in the security of the information they hold on me (luckily there is no safety risk, I just don't want him to know) and tbh mine is a fairly straightforward case in that although he limits his income, he will pay what they tell him to. I dread to think how they handle complex cases.

wonkylampshade · 10/08/2016 20:23

My case moved from the CSA to the CMS in March of this year. At that point my dd's dad owed something like £1800 (-in reality this figure should be far higher as he was working and fraudulently claiming benefits which were paying us £5).

Despite really feeling the CMS sounded like a more resolute agency with more power to collect his payments, I'm still to receive a single penny for my DD five months later.

I have a huge pile of identical letters telling me he has failed to make each payment. It's a complete joke! He hasn't seen her for well over two years and this year he had yet another child. He already has two he doesn't see or support.

I completely agree with previous posters who have said non paying and evasive NRPs need to be stigmatised and held to account legally for neglecting their children.

datingbarb · 10/08/2016 22:06

3 children and arrears over 20k never had a penny as he isn't down as NO INCOME!

He in fact works full time I have even provided picture evidence, given details of where he works and they say they can do nothing!!!

He holiday abroad 3/4 times a year, paid for ivf and has flash cars

They are useless and not even worth the cost of the phone call

43percentburnt · 11/08/2016 03:35

The system clearly doesn't work. It needs to be changed so there is an emphasis on the NRP taking more responsibility for their payments.

  • the NRP should have to register to pay child maintenance (same as when an individual becomes self employed The individual is responsible for registering for tax it's not HMRCs job to coerce them to pay it). It should be the NRPs responsibility to ensure every penny of maintenance is paid each year. Failure to register leads to a fine plus arrears.
  • failure to pay maintenance at the correct rate (this can be investigated retrospectively) leads to fines, back pay, removal of driving licence and prison as ultimately this is neglect. Neglect is a crime.
  • debt can be chased indefinitely - including seizure of assets.

At the moment it is common knowledge that Cms are rubbish, NRP will use this to not pay.

Why don't you use a) paye requires income to be logged monthly - use this data. Use self assessment data.
B)banks and building societies log the income given by a mortgage/loan/credit applicant on a database. This database is used by financial institutions to stop fraudulent applications - use the data! Surely if an NRP tells the bank they earn £50k and tells Cms it's 10k they are committing fraud - this should lead to a fine (see above).

Put failure to pay CMS and the outstanding debt onto an individual's credit history. Also show total amount outstanding. Credit files list all accounts held - check experian and equifax and get all bank accounts sent in if you have doubts.

C) as a country a cultural shift is required it should not be acceptable to avoid providing for your children. Just like the government wanted to shift thinking on seatbelt wearing, drink driving and eating 5 a day.

D) abusive parents know 50/50 residency means no money to be paid - this needs investigating. Parents no doubt avoid chasing maintenance so the NRP doesn't drag them through court where the judge could give 50% residency to an abusive person.

e) investigate individuals obviously living beyond their means - reducing their income to avoid paying. I believe in the U.S. They base it on what they would earn employed. So NRP says s/he earns £10k per annum self employed but an employed person doing that job earns £50k and s/he used to earn £50k but for the 3 years (not a start up business) since splitting has submitted tax returns showing £10k. Charge on the 50k.

The system is obviously a mess. The government collate so much financial data but don't appear to use much of it - it makes little sense.

It's also very odd that the resident parent is charged a % when the NRP doesn't pay! This obviously will lead to a lower 'private arrangement offer being made. Ie 'if you went through CMS you would only get 14% so I will only give you 14%'.

Finally the NRP income should be reassessed every year without fail - again responsibility needs to be with the individual to offer this income - or be fined.

Unfortunately fines, removal of assets, imprisonment and loss of driving licence will be required. Also the debt should never be written off - continue taking debt, for life, until repaid (even if individual was jailed).

Very sad state of affairs that an advanced western country cannot find a way of getting NRPs to pay for their own children.

43percentburnt · 11/08/2016 03:50

Reading this thread has made me question something. why does maintenance drop when you have further children (and reside with them) or live with a new partner who has children? Why do your previous children need less money just because an NRP has chosen to have more children? This seems very strange.

My understanding is that The tax credit changes (support only for first two children) are being introduced so parents only have children they can afford to support. So why does the government reduce CMS for NRPs if they choose to have more children - surely this is a financial incentive.

43percentburnt · 11/08/2016 04:05

The tax system was altered to implement a student loan 'tax' on earnings. This is deducted at source. (The government don't rely on the ex student to mediate a voluntary agreement with the provider of the loan - can't think why Grin ). This system could be a starting point.

Tick a box, state how many children, tax automatically calculated and deducted.

SheHasAWildHeart · 11/08/2016 10:07

Agree with all your points 43percentburnt - the solutions you put forward could be implemented if government wanted to. The issue is that they have no want to actually do it for whatever reason.

I just rang CMS and NRP has missed the 5 day deadline by 12 days. They are going to call him and give him another fortnight to pay. Zzzzzzzz. I think DD will be 20 and earning herself before this is sorted.

Greenyogagirl · 11/08/2016 11:05

Not received a penny for my son. Had phone calls saying they're doing stuff but yet to see any evidence of it happening.
Communication is good if you contact them.
To improve, a monthly update would be good (if you're not receiving payments)
I think the levels set are fine, I think the paying parent should receive a leaflet explaining its to help towards their child's upbringing. For food, clothes, bills etc not for toys or for them to dictate where it goes. Also that when it reaches the residents parents bank it is no longer the paying parents money.
Cms have used their power to access where my ex is working and gone through his employer, they're now checking banks and have sent him a liability order. I think the powers they have are appropriate but i think they should be enforced a lot quicker so the paying parent doesn't end up owing so much in arrears and the resident parent doesn't have to potentially struggle without financial help.
Csa arrears get moved over to cms and added on.

Currently owed £5500. On top of that is the extra he has to pay to cms. The fines from cms etc I feel this is past the point of no return and he will struggle to pay the regular child maintenance and the arrears. I think when £500 is owed all steps should be taken to retrieve ASAP before it gets out of control. I think step one contact the paying parent, step two find out where they work and request payment through there. step 3 check banks. Step 4 bailiffs. Step 5 lose driving license. Step 6 court. Too much time is left between these things which builds the arrears until it's unmanageable.

Rainbow · 11/08/2016 12:06

They are useless. I get £50 per week for one child despite the fact that he is earning in excess of £800 per week. He was on a low wage when I started my claim but he has been promoted and now has commission. I told CMA this and they phoned him. "My circumstances haven't changed" he lied so nothing has been done.
I get just under £7 a week for the others but as he's on benefit he doesn't have to pay the charges but I do. They messed up and I got nothing for 4 weeks but "there's nothing we can do. As he's on benefits, we cannot claim arrears"
When are we going to get a system that supports the children and not the absent parents?

AyeAmarok · 11/08/2016 12:13

The issue is that they have no want to actually do it for whatever reason.

I'll take a stab at this.

It's predominantly a women's issue, as most PWC are women, who are left with a child/children, struggling to work due to childcare costs. While the men go off and live their life uncurtailed by the financial and time-heavy responsibilities of their children.

Most government ministers and policy makers are men.

Men (as a class) benefit from the status quo quite well.

(men get to keep "their" money, men have less competition for jobs from women who can't work due to childcare, etc)

Rainbow · 11/08/2016 12:30

The Committee is inviting submissions addressing the following points:

  • How well is the CMS performing for children and parents? How could it be improved?

It's not performing for children. It is supporting the NRP. It allows them to pay late or not at all with no consequences.

  • What problems do parents face – both for the parent with care and the non-resident parent?

From my point of view (RP), late or no payment means cut backs on food and clothing, scout and school trips are unaffordable. While the NRPs can afford new cars, designer clothes and holidays (both NRPs in my case)

  • Are levels of child maintenance set correctly?

I think it should be based on income even those on benefit as one of my NRP is one benefit and is able to buy football shirts (£50 a time), buy and run a new car and go on holiday twice a year.

  • What powers does the CMS have and how effectively are they used? How effective is enforcement action?

Don't really know what powers they have but they don't use them. I often get told there is nothing they can do.

  • What will happen to CSA arrears or unresolved cases when parents move to the new CMS?

I hope they will be moved over and not written off.

  • How might the CMS deal with any weaknesses or loopholes in the old CSA system?

Use the same system that banks, loan company's and the HMRC use to determine true income. Don't believe the NRP as they often lie to reduce payments or get out of paying. Make it fraudulent to declare false income and penalise those who don't pay or pay less. Stop giving the NRP so long. The deadline has passed, pay now or consequences. Not the deadline has passed here's another 2 weeks then another month, then more time.

  • Are there any opportunities for Government departments to work together to ensure regular payment?

Yes. The HMRC has access to your earnings to calculate tax. Use these earnings to calculate CM.

  • Is there any international evidence on ways of ensuring parents regularly contribute to their children’s maintenance payments?

I think the USA have a better system.

SheHasAWildHeart · 11/08/2016 12:33

Agree AyeAmarok and any moves that require men to declare their true income, have their bank accounts checked, their driving licence taken away etc would receive such an outcry and make the MP/minister very unpopular amongst men so no one wants to take it on.

SheHasAWildHeart · 11/08/2016 12:34

It allows them to pay late or not at all with no consequences.
Does anyone know if there are any consequences at all?!

Ilovemygsd · 11/08/2016 13:42

Apparently taking driving licence, and passport Is already a thing, and then prison also. But my ex has 6k worth of debt, doesn't keep up regular pymts and he hasn't suffered any of these consequences yet, they need to enforce these punishments and maybe they'd start paying up

SheHasAWildHeart · 11/08/2016 13:46

See I think it's that lack of consequence that had led to exH being so useless.
It's child neglect, that's what it is.

Namechanger2015 · 11/08/2016 14:49

It's predominantly a women's issue, as most PWC are women, who are left with a child/children, struggling to work due to childcare costs. While the men go off and live their life uncurtailed by the financial and time-heavy responsibilities of their children.

Most government ministers and policy makers are men

Totally agree with the AyeAmarok. Single parents (predominantly mothers) are still seen as feckless individuals who 'got themselves pregnant' and should therefore the grateful for any payments they do get.

ExH is loaded, lives in a big house (alone), drives an Audi AND a sports car, all of the usual cliches. Yet has never paid the amount agreed by the CMS. He has always paid approx £250 less than he should be per month, which makes a huge difference to provisions for our 3 young children.

CMS attitude has been: at least he pays something, you should be grateful for that. Just accept what he gives you and move on.
Argh! He is not paying ME anything. He is paying for food in his children mouths fgs.

The culture of woman/single-parent blaming MUST change. CMS avoiders must be seen as the neglectful parents they are.

TheGruffaloMother · 11/08/2016 15:02

It won't happen though.

IMO the single most valid point on this thread is that policy makers are men and this is a women's issue that if tackled will weaken the position of men, both at home and in the workplace.

The amount of (usually) men not paying for their children is a very muted national scandal that isn't being tackled because policy makers have a vested interest to maintain the status quo. As far as I can see, the move to CMS from CSA was almost exclusively to provide the illusion that something was being done.

43percentburnt · 11/08/2016 20:37

Ayeamarok - yes I agree there is no interest in resolving this issue. The question 'what shall we do about arrears' is odd - collect them ASAP and ensure the kids receive them!

I have never dealt with CMS, I am A wohp and always vote - this issue may be a woman's issue however it affects society. Surely this money would enable children to eat better, participate in activities and ultimately feel both parents provided.

I'm very interested in the outcome of this enquiry. I genuinely believe it would be relatively easy to solve this problem however only financial/ driving/passport sanctions will work. (As the government knows - hence traffic fines, HMRC tax fines, court fines etc - threats of financial sanctions work).

There are many men who would and do find avoiding maintenance abhorrent - that's why a cultural shift is required. Why do people feel their child is somebody else's financial responsibility? Be it the RPs or the states.
Also the neglect should be recorded on the NRP dbs check - I would be appalled if my child was being taught by a teacher that avoided paying maintenance to his/her children.

smilingeyes11 · 12/08/2016 13:01

I was told my ex would lose his licence or go to prison for non payment. None of these things have happened. 2 years of calling and sobbing on the phone some days - received 2 payments then he quit his job. Arrears will supposedly just sit there forever. I am meant to receive the princely sum of £7 a week - not holding my breath.

He claims to be single so allegedly pays maintenance to his other children too - thus reducing what I should be getting. I know he is only single on paper and is still with the latest woman but they are both being fraudulent so he can avoid paying me and she gets all the benefits she can as a 'single' parent. He will be working cash in hand but without any evidence he lives the life of riley and I get not a penny. They are laughing all the way to the bank, I am struggling. Seems being dishonest and ditching your children and not paying a penny is acceptable these days?

I raised a complaint with CMO once after months of nothing being done as promised- but they told me to proceed with my claim I need to drop the complaint so I had no choice but to drop it. So if you log a complaint your claim is paused and won't get resolved. Interesting way of massaging the figures so not many complaints are logged.

flippinada · 12/08/2016 13:43

My experience of them is entirely negative.

I opened a claim many years ago when they were the CSA.

My XP, who at that time was a highly paid company director (£60k plus - I was on less than £20k at the time) refused to pay so several months down the line they put in place an arrestment on his salary but got nothing as he then left or was sacked - not sure which (I'll never forget him gleefully reporting to me he wouldn't be paying anything as he left his job).

I advised CSA and they insisted he was still there. I explained he had left. No, they knew better, he definitely still worked there. Nothing happened despite repeated phone calls. At one point a had a very patronising and rude individual telling me how arrestments worked. At the time I was working as a debt advisor so knew exactly how this happened. When I told them so they hung up on me. I remember crying with frustration at that point.

I sent in a formal complant and received no response. To cut a long story short, after much frustration I approached my MP who was absolutely great. I got an apology and some compensation. I also found out at that point that they had a department that was specifically set up to deal with such complaints! That tells you a lot about how they operated.

After all this, eventually they assessed my XP as being self employed and said he needed to pay £5 per week. He offered me £50 a month if I closed the CSA claim. I did so as this was more than I would get via them.

I agree wholeheartedly with PP that it's far too easy for NRPs to avoid payment if they are minded that way, and that the penalties for non payment need to be harsher as non payers face no consequences. Payment should be enforced, not treated as optional.

My XP and his new wife are comfortably off - at the moment they run two cars and are building a £40,000 extension on their house. Years down the line I'm still struggling. The system sucks

ShirleyKnotReboot · 12/08/2016 15:01

The CMEA (who are the enforcement arm of the CMS) have actually been successful in winkling out some cash from my ex - somewhat amazingly. They took direct from his bank account (over a bank holiday weekend, how I laughed) so as soon as that happened he closed that account.

He works for a company now after being self employed and recently inherited a large sum of money. I'm not too sure why his employer is not taking the money at source through the payroll but all I know is that they're not.

He is over £20,000 in arrears and I received a call from the CMEA last week asking me...wait for it...if the CSA had pursued the liability order that they have. How the fuck should I know?!

It's a toothless beast unfortunately. My ex knows, he knows that nothing is really going to happen to him (despite the man at the CMEA telling me that they might now look into pursing a custodial sentence - how the hell this will help is beyond me. Do they really think I want my children to have a father in prison FFS?). If he lost his passport, then he would feel the pain. If he lost his driving licence, he would feel that pain (although he'd probably drive without it anyway), if he lost his house he would feel that pain.

Oh, and as an aside, the security questions for the CMEA are ridiculous. 8 bloody questions. EIGHT.

HelenaDove · 12/08/2016 15:16

Well fellow MNers Apparently its the men who are getting a raw deal Angry Angry

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/12/tory-mp-philip-davies-claims-uk-legal-system-favours-women-at-mens-rights-event

Swipe left for the next trending thread