MN - too lenient on hate speech at present

[OhYouBadBadKitten]

Yesterday Amnesty International launched an urgent research campaign into the rise in hate speech Yesterday the UN High Comissioner urged Britain to urgently stop hate crimes

People need to call it out when they see hate speech on mn. There has been plenty recently. It can take courage when so many supporters then pile on though, but you don't need to get into an argument. A simple statement rejecting what they say, without quoting them, is enough. Just simply not saying anything then waiting several hours for mn to delete it adds power to their voice. People always need to report things to mn.

I am concerned that mn are not dealing with things quickly enough at the moment. They must be swamped with reports. I think that an option to report for hate speech should be an explicit available reason and those reports should be red flagged as urgent. The more hate speech that is seen, the more that it tacitly gives others the go ahead to say the same.

I've seen examples of a post being deleted, but the poster not being banned - despite them having said something that is so irrefutably xenophobic, that nobody could interpret it otherwise - and this concerns me. All that teaches them to do is to learn to moderate their language, so that they can get their messages across more subtly. This allows an insiduous tolerance of hate speech to creep across the boards.

It is important to allow freedom of discussion. It is wrong to allow xenophobia, racism and hate to proliferate. It's a difficult one to reconcile, but the balance needs to shift.

MN you could also help by cooperating with amnesty international in recording and reporting incidents to them.

There absolutely should be an option for posts to be be flagged specifically for Hate speech, like the spam button.

At least then MNHQ can possibly prioritise those over the usual 'bun fight' post reports!

WellErr I don't understand why you're so adamant on getting OYBBK to repeat examples of something that has since been deleted for breaking the TG.

Is it so hard to take it at face value that she is talking about some abominable instances of direct Racism/Xenophobia?

I agree with Tara.

Open any thread to do with the referendum and there will be hate speech on it.

People are hiding behind keyboard anonymity and they are hiding precisely behind the fact that "AI probably have better things to do"

Can you manage to see where expressing one's own opinion in a freedom of speech kinda way and hate speech might become a teensy weensy bit intertwined WellErr?

I personally haven't noticed hate speech more so recently, although I have deliberately been sticking to lighter threads. MNHQ seem to be quite on the ball about deleting things.

What I have seen is certain posters being vocal about issues and pushing their own agenda on to fairly ordinary threads. Any criticism of this is met with "now you're being xxxxist".

I have reported racist posts this week. Very blatant racism that could not be taken as a (bad taste) joke.

I agree with hate crime posts being prioritised.

I was abit hmm about this, purely because people have been fighting to get disablism stamped out on her for so long. And its still not sorted,
Thats me being honest.
But my eyes have just been opened.
A thread is started, and they hide behind a complaint about things being too pc.
They then use not only rasicm but disablism as a example
So can I bump this and say please mn hq stamp out the hatred,
Add a button along with the the spam one
Give us the option to report hate
Be it racist or disablist.
Give it priority and make this a safe place for parents.

well said samcro and I'm sorry that you have been battling this sort of shit for so long.

Apparently theres a three (possibly two) strikes and you're out rule, need.

Or so we have been told on the disabilism threads, anyway...

i find it odd if you post a proper racist/disablist post you get 2 more goes.....

ahh yes back to we must educate!!
sadly there are people who find it fun to be disablist

Hello everyone

Thanks for this, everyone. We do our best to respond to reports in as timely a fashion as possible, but when report volumes are high, it's true that response times do tend to go down a bit - sorry. We'll have a think about this if that's okay - we do see the rationale, but just need to think through the possible outcomes before we take a view.

Thanks again

MNHQ

neither has ageism been sorted

I think it's a public forum and sometimes you are going to hear 'hate speech' or opinions you don't agree with.

I'd rather hear it. I'd be concerned that we will end up
With issues that cannot be challenged or argued for fear of causing offence. Transgender is one, immigration is another.

ChipStix

No. Hate speech is not to be bracketed with opinions I don't agree with.

"Glenn Hoddle is the best manager England ever had" is an opinion I don't agree with.

"Fucking [ethnic group] are cockroaches. I want our country back. Drive them out." is hate speech.

"God hates [group of people]" is hate speech.

The street is actually a public forum, too, but laws against threatening and intimidating people apply there. My mate's (hypothetical) uncle Charlie can be prosecuted for aggressive racist comments there, but why let him and other like him gain courage enough to do it from successfully making the same types of comment anonymously online from behind his keyboard? Because that is where online tolerance of hatred is going to end.

If you're still not sure what hate speech is, I've c&ped a good explanation.

What is Hate Speech?

Hate speech consists of verbal and nonverbal expression that is used to demean, oppress, or promote violence against someone on the basis of their membership in a social or ethnic group. Hate speech involves more than simply indicating that you dislike someone. It also is different than simply teasing or ridiculing someone, or shouting an ugly word at them in a single moment of anger or frustration.

In many cases, hate speech is created by people who are part of a majority population. Their messages typically are directed toward people who are part of a minority population. The targets of hate speech are chosen just because they belong to that particular group of people. The messages of hate also are designed to degrade or otherwise harm these targets for the same reason.

What are some examples of Hate Speech?

Racist cartoons
Anti-Semitic symbols spray painted on the side of a synagogue
Ethnic slurs or other derogatory labels for a group
Burning a cross in the yard of an ethnic minority
Politically incorrect jokes that target the disabled or the aged
Anti-gay protest signs and chants

Who can become a Target of Hate Speech?

Just about anyone can be a target of hate speech. Some people might become targets because they are of a particular race, nationality, or religion. Other people could be targeted because they are disabled in some way, or because of their gender, age, or sexual orientation."

None of that stuff is acceptable in public spaces; in fact, it's all stuff that is against the T and Cs to which we agreed when signing up to a private forum. What we're asking for is stricter enforcement.

If racial abuse or disablist abuse isn't okay outside your house or on your high street, it shouldn't be okay on MN.

Excellent post Tara.

I, for one, am getting sick to the back teeth of the "it's a public forum, wah wah" justifications trotted out.

It's law.

I'd get banged up if I shot someone in the (public) street. I'd get banged up if I shot someone in my (private) house.

It's not fucking rocket science.

MN need to get behind this now. This site is full of politico-trolls and has been for some time. But only recently, after 12 years on MN, have I contemplated using a different name just for the racist threads. (ie the Cologne hatespeech ones) Because there are people on there, who have as much in common with your common-or-garden MNer as I do with an aubergine. And you need to stop with the wishywashy "we don't like to shut down debate" bollocks. You have the chance here to be at the forefront of saying No, not in our name. Not in our site's name. This is a safe place.

But I won't hold my breath.

PS, I didn't, and I won't, change my name.

Fuck them.

I have not seen any of your examples of hate speech on here. No flaming crosses, racist cartoons etc
I'm sure they would be deleted if they appeared.

TaraCarter bang on, excellent summary. Honestly it is genuinely frightening the amount of people who think they can say what they like and call it freedom of speech, it really is very easy to see the difference between freedom of speech and hate speech.

Chopsticks that old line examples include but are not limited to will cover it, surely you don't need to have every possibility explicitly listed for you.

That's chipstix , chuffing auto correct thinks it's so clever