Primary school admissions, 'super size' classrooms and 'titan' schools - what do you think?

[JaneMumsnet]

Hello,

We've been asked to comment on today's reports that, as parents meet the primary school applications deadline today, more than 500,000 children are being taught in 'super-size' classrooms of more than 30 pupils. There's also an increase in 'titan' primary schools of over 800 pupils.

We'd love to know what you think about this. Are you worried about your child getting into the school of your choice in September? If you live in an over-subscribed area for primary schools, what would you like to see change about the application process?

Is your child in a class of 30-40 children or more, or at a 'titan' primary school and if so, how do you feel about it?

As ever, thanks very much for sharing your thoughts.

MNHQ

Should add it's even worse come secondary

I have no problem at all with larger schools, because I know there are lots of ways to manage groups and maintain an intimate family feel, if that is what you want.

I do however have an enormous problem with schools have to expand constantly within a fixed plot, taking away their outside space, or, as in the case of my daughter's school, having a "field" that was a 15 minute walk crossing a busy road to get to.

I do also have a problem with class sizes exceeding 30. There is no way on earth a teacher can be expected to provide the best teaching for each child in classes of that size. In my mind, even 30 is pushing it. We spent some time living in Scotland when the infant class target of 18 was being tried, and the difference was amazing. Up to about 25 is still great, but over 30, just not fair on either the teacher or the children.

My Dd is in a popular primary in Scotland with a strict catchment area.
They had to squeeze two primary one classes into one shared classroom due to the lack of space.

I am annoyed at the lack of provisions for updating school buildings but at the same time Dd was lucky to have a wonderful p1 teacher who could have did her job out of a garden shed and it would have made no difference!

But 30odd primary 1s in one room is not ideal at all.

My local primaries are reasonable and we (hopefully) should get what we want. But

My ten penn'orth is that it was a major mistake taking control of schools and control of establishing new schools away from local councils. Ok so local councils have problems, but they are at least local and in theory anyone can choose to get more closely involved with them. They're now in the tricky position of having a responsibility to provide places while having no power whatsoever to do so. No one else has the responsibility to provide places. It is daft to separate the two, at least, whatever you think of councils.

Central government is miles away and does not have a clue what's going on in most parts of the country (doesn't care much either, as long as it can take what it wants and give as little back as possible).

From the perspective of a teacher,with the best will in the world, a class size of over 30 children is just too many children for any teacher no matter how skilled they may be;to really get to know let alone prepare all the numerous resources needed on a daily basis.
In a large school there tends to be numerous levels of non class based staff, I do not believe that a secondary school model can ever be in the interest of young children; children flourish in secure familiar settings where good relationships flourish.

Our school is coming up to 800 pupils, and will get there soon when it becomes permanent 4 form entry. It's been less of a problem than I expected, but I think my choice would be 2-3 form entry.

The lack of local planning of schools makes me crazy. The nonsense going on in our area.... first we got a new Catholic school which imports children from elsewhere while kids from our borough have to travel out. Now we have a new 'local' secondary which will be built in the next borough, because all the available land locally is being sold off for luxury housing developments (more children, fewer school places).

Our local school is 3 form entry but its become an academy by merging with 3 other schools. It feels like the head waltzes in and out and compares the schools all the time. She is very into facts and figures and really doesn't seem to know the kids (how can she?!).

I miss it being a proper local community school, but the teachers are fab.

DD was at a very large primary school in the 1990s in South London, and it was substantially better than the prep school she was pulled out of, as the quality of teachers was frankly a lot higher, and there was more enrichment as the number of pupils was high enough to organise special programmes. Her maths in particular came on a treat. I think there's such a thing as economy of scale BUT it needs an absolutely fabulous head who really manages well and is still available to parents (and understands them and their children).

Bungo is spot on, by the way.

"I hadn't realised that the Local Authority is NOT ALLOWED to build new schools."

This isn't the whole truth.

This is lifted from another thread, and is a better reflection of the situation: which is that LAs can open new schools, but the circumstances under which they do so are limited.

"LAs can still create additional places at existing schools. They can also identify the need for a new school, provide the site and meet the associated capital and pre/post opening costs. However the presumption is that the school will be a free school so the LA must seek proposals from bodies interested in establishing the new school. So LAs can still create school places, they just can't run the resulting school unless no-one else is willing to do so."

What it comes down to is that some councils are much better performing than others (generally) and some places have more pressure on school places than others.

Schools in this London borough are almost all 4 form entry or about to become so. Although the local authority has been funded by central government to increase the number of classrooms in each school there is no provision made for larger halls, increased number of ICT suites, specialist teaching areas or small rooms for group teaching. At the same time, of course, playground space has stayed the same if the school is lucky, or, more usually decreased. I retired early because I did not want to lead a school of 840 (plus 52 nursery) pupils in a building that was too small.