As part of the BBC's #100women project, please tell us: what do you think about the idea of the 'good' woman?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

As you may have noticed, the BBC is running a #100women project at the moment, with the aim of exploring issues and challenges facing women across the world.

As part of that, they are today hosting a worldwide conversation involving women's groups from more than 50 countries, from Samoa to Burundi, from Girl Guides in India to activists in South Africa, and from feminist groups in Kosovo to students and faculty at Yale University.

They've asked Mumsnet to be a part of this debate. Snippets from your conversation on this thread, and from all the debates taking place elsewhere, will be appearing on this page throughout the day. You can also check in on the conversation under the #100women hashtag on social media.

Here are the questions/debate topics they'd like you to respond to - as outlined above, these were put together by the BBC and the idea is to prompt debate in a huge variety of cultures and countries.

What are the pressures and expectations faced by you as a woman in society today?
Do you feel there is pressure to conform to the "right way" to behave?

Does the pressure start early?
What is a "good girl"?
Who decides what is good - you, your family, society?
How do you react to those pressures and expectations? Do you accept or reject them?
What about women and leadership: do ideas of how women 'should' behave hold them back, in society and at work?
Are quotas the only way to see more women in public roles?
Are beautiful women more likely to succeed?
How much time do you spend perfecting your image - in reality or on social media?
Are women expected to be subservient?
If you could eliminate one pressure on women, what would it be?

We hope you'll agree it will be fascinating to see how Mumsnetters' thoughts and views shape up against those of women across the world; over to you!

Thanks
MNHQ

You don't think how women are viewed by society is an actual issue in society today?

How odd.

To offer a different perspective:

As a Muslim woman who chooses to wear hijab, I feel pressure from a few non-Muslim women to shake off the shackles of my hijab and be 'liberated'. I sometimes feel criticised for wearing it, as if I am doing a disservice to women.

I've lived life as a non-Muslim and a Muslim, with and without hijab and I can honestly say I've never felt more liberated than when I'm wearing my scarf. The fact that I've chosen to wear it makes some women uneasy, even though it's often the same women who criticise society for placing pressure on women to be more beautiful and conform to a certain look. I feel that some women don't think I have the capacity to make an educated, fully informed and independent choice and choose to wear hijab.

I think the questions such as:

what is a good girl
Wo decides if you're a good girl,
How much time do you spend perfecting your image
Are beautiful women more successful

Are silly and not at all important topics for feminist discussion. I've watched a few bbc documentaries lately about sexism and they were just as poor in constructino anything worthwhile there too.
I find that far more odd tbh

Seriously, Mumsnet?

This is wrong on so many levels and I'm astonished you can't see why.

Glad someone else can see it. Just had a look at the Web page and there's discussion about "do children go off the rails because mothers work?", and they're being serious, it's not satirical.
The only areas of concern to be discussed apparently are pressures, expectations and appearances! Its clearly all been devised by men who don't understand what feminism is.

This is just my view, I'm not saying I'm right but to me it's a bit embarrassing the topics they've deemed of most importance

Exactly. Once again conforming to the idea of women as mothers and not much else, really.

We call a man with children - a man
We call a woman with children - a mother.

We see a man without children as a man.
We see a woman without children as career obsessed/bitter/barren/unfulfilled* delete as appropriate depending on your own prejudice.

We need to start seeing women as people and, actually, we need to do the same for men too.

This thing by the BBC is just as restrictive, prejudiced and stereotypical as the Daily Fail's sidebar of shame. Make-up and children are NOT the only issue facing women today.

Thd (sexist) cliche is that women are 'their own worst enemy' in being judgemental of each other's life choices (whether or when to have children, return to work, etc). My strong sense is that this is because there is a lack of fixed social norms in the UK as to women's role. Choice brings uncertainties (the 'what ifs'). Many women seem to seek to allay their doubts, insecurities and even latent guilt about their own choices by judging others. It's a way of bolstering one's sense that the right choice was made. I'd like to see a society where no-one compares notes and there's a genuine spirit of 'live & let live'. No model is perfect for every women - that should be so obvious; we expect people to have different tastes and preferences in every other way. So I'd like to see far more tolerance of a range of choices - and for them simply not to be an issue.

I'll never forget the look of astonishment I got when during a team bonding session at work we were discussing our future aspirations. I was around 24 and in a demanding profession. I said: 'to be a working mother', ie to balance family and professional life. The look the most senior woman in the room gave me - astonishment, shock, even a tiny bit of distaste. Her own choices weighed too heavily on her view of others'. She could have been a role model and advocate for other women in the workplace, but for me that readiness to see one path as the right one (quick progression right to the top) made her far less valuable as a trailblazer for women in the workplace.

Bagpushkin would it not perhaps have been because you were obviously quite young and ultimately telling employers your aspiration is to be a mother just translates to them as it's pointless putting the effort into training you as you will be gone soon.
There's nothing wrong or unusual with your aspirations but understandably they're not the kind of goals an employer is referring to or should be told about.
It's just going to ring alarm bells for her not because she disagrees with your chosen path but because she and her other employees may then be wasting time training you etc if you don't return

I feel uncomfortable with the whole slant of this.
Asking women to question themselves. Is that what it's asking us to do? If so, then it's perpetuating the pressure women feel.
If women around the world are having problems because of what society expects a 'good woman' and yes for that I read 'good girl' to do then it is not for women to solve, it is for society as a whole.
I would like a group of men to be asked these questions, about women and asked to question society's pressure on women.
How wonderful it would be to have a programme featuring a large group of intelligent, respected men, be they footballers, politicians (OK, I said respected....), singers, business owners discussing the issues of inequality and ending up with them wholeheartedly, publicly rejecting the way women are treated all over the world and vowing to fight inequality.

The bbc do a great job in their documentaries looking at racism and poverty, but they've only just now started to look at sexism and their lack of competence is just mind blowing.

On BBC I player their attempts at addressing it check out Charlie xcx the f word and me, and Tyger takes on- am I sexist

Both are shocking, no research done at all, complete lack of awareness

SapphireStarfish - no, I said I wanted to be a working mother; not a mother full stop, nor a stay-at-home mother. And the sector I work in are nominally at least very family-friendly - and there were women in that room who were working mothers. My point in this session (which I was facilitating) was to be open and honest. Others were talking about aspirations to work in X country or travel to Y place one day - it was no more personal or inappropriate for me to share that I hoped to be a working mother one day.

Ah right, well that is weird as you'd have thought being an older woman the desire to have children would be more commonplace in her generation