Isn't about time MNHQ started deleting posts that attack people's spelling and grammar?

[cuntycowfacemonkey]

(In advance I will say any of my posts are likely to have spelling and grammar mistakes)

It's such a shitty thing to do and often it is directed at poster who then feel they have to explain themselves and disclose they have dyslexia. I don't understand why MN tolerate people with potential disabilities being mocked in this way?

Why can it not be regarded as a personal attack and such comments deleted. Very often the arses that post comments about another posters spelling bring nothing else to the thread and usually it derails the thread and the OP's original issue gets lost in the ensuing bunfight.

I think that people who correct other posters' language usage (unless they ask for help) usually come across as petty and small-minded. I am actually a professional pedant. I write and edit for a living. But the experiences of having raised a child with dyslexia and other learning difficulties and of having worked with an adult literacy organization have really opened my eyes to the challenges many people face with English.

I think it is also important to understand that it is relative. There are always going to be people who are better at some aspects of written and spoken English than others. They may have a higher baseline of acceptable literacy that puts many of us, even skilled writers, in the "needs improvement" category.

And this:
paintingthegreyarea.wordpress.com/2012/11/26/literacy-privilege/

Anyone who thinks the grammar and spelling correction on MN is being kindly provided to improve the literacy of the targeted poster is naive, delusional, or sporting pants dangerously aflame.

And for the record, it's been rather delicious spotting the truly hideous grammatical howlers self-declared pedants are making, all over this thread.

Is it really the 'lowest common denominator' to be unable to spell and to make grammatical typos?

Yes, I agree, it's good to keep learning. But it's not good if you set yourself up as the person in charge of deciding what the 'lowest common denominator' is and constantly putting people in that category while you're secure in the knowledge you're not in there.

This. This precisely. Because so many people offer thoughtful, thought-provoking, wise and experienced advice on Mumsnet, and as long as their English is good enough to convey that wisdom then the odd grammar problem or spelling error is so irrelevant. All flawless literacy proves is a mind that functions in a particular way, or an excellent education, and usually both. It doesn't guarantee or even indicate that the person is able to offer more worthwhile advice - not unless a letter is being written, and help in drafting/proof-reading it sought.

samcro - on the assumption that you were asking a genuine question then the way to tell when you use "lose" and "loose" is to think about the past tense of lose = lost = 1 o. If you lose this, it will be lost forever.
Lose --> lost.
Loose does not go to lost. Also, loose rhymes with goose - and you don't say it like that if you mean lose, because lose is pronounced luze.

ghostspirit has given a good way to remember brought and bought in similar fashion, but using the present tense of the verb to differentiate -
bRing and bRought,
buy and bought.

your and you're - extend the you're to you are and if it works, then that's what you should use. If it doesn't work, then use your.
So - you're joking aren't you - you are joking, aren't you = correct use of you're.
Your = same as my only belonging to you, not me. Your hat, for e.g. Not you're hat because that would be "you are hat". Which, in general, you won't be.

While I'm on a roll, if anyone has trouble remembering when they should use a c or an s in words like practise/practice - think of the words advice/advise instead (because they're pronounced differently so easy to tell the difference).
Good practice/advice = nouns.
I'd advise you to practise more = verbs.

I'll bugger off now.

OP, I think it's U to call all corrections personal attacks unless they're in the context of being mean and belittling - but when they are, then yes, they should be deleted.

wannaBe
ok, so people want to correct other people's spelling and grammar. Fine. Except stop being so bloody disingenuous about it. Let's be honest here, you're not correcting spelling and grammar because you think that they might appreciate the correction/should aspire to do better/perhaps didn't know that they had got it wrong/. You correct their spelling and grammar because it annoys you personally.

Exactly this. Don't dress it up as genuine concern.

My suggestion of "if you think it would really benefit a poster then PM them" has been met by and it would be patronising apparently. I think the reality is doing it by PM doesn't allow everyone else to see how clever you are. The plus side of doing it publicly is that everyone can also make a judgement on whether you're an arsehole.

Th only time I have thought it appropriate was when a poster was wondering about whether their job application would result in an interview as they hadn't heard back yet and somebody fairly politely pointed out they'd made a few errors in their post (their/there type)and wondered if this might have been a factor and suggested sling someone to look over future applications.

thumbwitches that was a helpful post. Thank you.

Mumsnet has become a different type of beast unfortunately.

Long gone are the days where posters were genuinely witty and threads were easy to read due to their impeccable use of English.

Apart from cod.

To go back to the original question, I think that posts should flow well and the onus is on the writer to make sure the post is easily understood. If you are finding it hard to decipher a post due to the poster's spelling and grammatical errors then the poster can hardly complain if they are ignored or misinterpreted.

I don't think posts should be deleted for highlighting errors as long as they are written in a sympathetic or amusing way. Actually I don't agree with deleting posts at all, let other readers make up their own minds, we're all adults, I think.

I don't like bad grammar, especially the use of 'of' instead of 'have', but if someone has posted with a problem, then it is really off to pick them up on it. Surely Mumsnet is a support forum, not an 'improve your grammar ' forum. There is a pedants topic, so you can get all your spelling and grammar angst out there, and leave the other areas for giving the support any OP needs.

You can't assume that just because someone uses text speak or hunz, they are any less needing or deserving of help.

One person's sympathetic and amusing can be another's patronising and pisstaking/sneery. That's the problem I think.
Would people do it in real life mid-conversation, e.g, to a mum at the school gate? I really don't believe they would.

It's impossible to call, and where errors occur there's generally always a little self-congratulatory cluster, backpatting one another and saying "I'm soooo glad you said something my eyes were bleeding". It then goes on and on, derailing the thread and must only serve to make the person who made the mistake feel like utter shite.

If you think someone's post breaks talk guidelines (which can include goady fuckerness) then report it, no let MNHQ deal with it.

The 'grammar wars' which lead to whiny threads like this are a regular and regrettable feature of MN.

But they never stop - and won't unless/until people deal with stuff on the thread

People do, I always do and I wouldn't say I was whiny in doing so either.
I just find adults using another adults's educational ability for point scoring distasteful. You'd find that at school wouldn't you "ha ha Jenny said of instead of have, you're such a thicko Jenny". It's no different.

I cannot stand the SPAG police, it spoils many a good thread and fills up my spreadshit with too many names.

Except.

It does make me smile when a wanker or goady fucker starts a thread being judgemental about another parent - usually something to do with 'neglect' and an air of "won't somebody think of the children" because they parent so much better than everyone else...and their OP is riddled with spelling or grammatical errors that are then bought up by another poster as a reason NOT to listen to whatever the goady fucker is saying. . Now I love it when that happens (OP tends to either go loon or down the bjullying bjitches route )

I tend to post on internet forums as I would speak, I'm sure my grammar isn't up to much but I don't think we were taught it in the west Midlands in the 1990s.

Yy, I am a big hypocrite, I do like to see the bjullying bjitches sort get their comeuppance.

But otherwise, it's petty and makes the person with the virtual red pen look like a right bellend.

The SPAG police are actively discriminating against posters who have learning difficulties, who have English as a second language, who had a terrible education etc

But maybe those people are wanted on MN? Maybe THEY want this to be a middle class middle aged enclave of British women with a degree from an RG univeristy?

I hate it is nasty sneery and snooty regardless of any disability people have poor spelling and/or grammar and to go on a thread and say things like oh the grammar makes my teeth itch is a shitty thing to do comment on the post and no the content isnt important most people are able to get the gist sneery people chose not to.

I agree with cunty and wannabe. We need kindness more than impeccable spag on MN.

Thewordfactory you are right I have seen things like mumsnet has gone to the dawgs what they mean is who let the plebs in.

I'm an MFL teacher and a pedant. Like many others on here, I can't help but inwardly cringe when I see poor spelling and grammar. I would NEVER point it out to a poster though, because it would make them feel bad and would be largely pointless.

I agree that standards of literacy have fallen, and that this is particularly evident on social media and public forums (or fora ). But this is a problem which needs to be tackled in schools. Criticising random adults on MN is a tiny drop in a massive ocean. You can claim you're doing it for the greater good, but I don't believe that. I'd be doing it out of my own irritation, except I don't let myself.

Deleting people for it might be a step too far though, unless it really is nastily done. I have very rarely seen it done to upset, emotional OPs. And usually anyone who dares to do it gets a proper dressing-down from other posters.

I don't notice bad grammar at all really, ( I speed read ) & even if I did I'd never think to comment on it.
Certain words make me roll my eyes though & I'd ban them if I could.

1. hubby
2. play date

Perhaps the OP hasn't been here very long, and needs to go and read "The Grammer Police" [sic] thread?

I suppose it's quite difficult to tell in (real life) speech if someone is spelling 'you're' as 'your' in their head

It could be argued that you aren't really supposed to use capital letters for WHOLE words, mid sentence though too.

It does remind me a bit of people down south pointing out to you that you have an accent, from up north. Then you correcting them and saying actually it's the Midlands and them insisting no it's definitely all up north. I could just be going off on a tangent though

almost the only time an OP's spelling and grammar needs to be mentioned is if it truly makes the OP impossible to understand. And even then, the purpose of the post needs to be considered, and the matter approached KINDLY. It wouldn't hurt either for readers inclined to correct to take a step back and go read some other posts for a moment. An OP in distress doesn't need to be overwhelmed with multiple critics, step back and let the first grammar pedant take the lead on helping the OP clarify. There is also the chance that although you have had trouble understanding OP, when you come back and RTFT you may discover other people had no trouble at all, and advice is flowing so just leave it alone and let the poor OP get the help they came for from the folks who could interpret the post.

it is more than OK to comment when an error creates a howler on non-distress posts or responses. the resulting strings of puns and one liners are some of the most entertaining parts of the web, not just MN.

But pulling someone up on in on AIBU just as a secondary way of criticising them or when they are obviously in distress is bullying, piling on by criticising something someone already mentioned is just teenaged mean girl levels of cruel.

I hate bad spelling and grammar too.

At work, I frequently have to correct draft reports that have been written by others.

Outside of work, I can't imagine publicly humiliating someone by correcting their spelling or grammar. (If I felt it was really useful to them, I might have a quiet word privately - like in a PM.)

I can think of very few examples I've seen on MN where the clear purpose of the correction has NOT been to patronise or belittle the other poster. It's particularly nasty when it's the first response on a thread where an OP is in some distress.

use a c or an s in words like practise/practice - think of the words advice/advise instead (because they're pronounced differently so easy to tell the difference).
Good practice/advice = nouns.
I'd advise you to practise more = verbs.

i thought practise/practice was a UK/US thing! i am pretty sure we use practice for both needs. or my memory is going. either way, um, thanks.