this no special needs in active convos business

[Cappuccino]

it's all getting swallowed up in the thread about secret areas

but basically mn has decided to take special needs out of active convos and have a special 'with special needs' button

I don't agree with this - I know they are trying to do the best for everyone but I object to people being able to 'edit out' special needs when they are looking at active convos. I don't want people to be able to edit out my experience of parenting or my daughter in rl and I object to it here

I feel it pigeonholes; additionally I remember when I first found out that dd was sn I knew no-one and had come across nothing about cerebral palsy or sn; if I had seen the odd thread while scrolling through mn it would have felt somehow more normal, something that I was not alone in. I wouldn't want newbies in this situation to start suddenly having to seek out a new button

I just don't like it and I know there are others who share this view from the other thread

eids I think it should be available without having to go look for it

for all the reasons I've said

I'm not sure anyone's mentioned new people skimming the site, or journos coming and having a look... all sorts of people should see SN topics IMHO without necessarily going 'hunting'. If there are issues with ignorant or aggresive posting, there should be ways for the community to address that.

Imagine being new on here (without coming for SN info or general Talk stuff) and not quite getting that there's an SN area because it's left out of active convos ?

hub I agree; re newbies particularly

but also just because sn is around in all parts of life, it should be the same of mn

hub there hasn't always been an sn area - when I first started posting - you posted where it seemed relevant. FInd it strange that a newbie wouldn't check out all the topics rather than just the active convos - but hey that may just be me.

I thought it was a good compromise. THose that wanted to still use sn could click on it - those that didn't could ignore it and you did nto need a password to access it.

And additionally, aside from the new 'friends' people take away after a few months of MNetting, one of the most common 'what do you get out of MN' answers is 'education'.

Education in ALL SORTS OF AREAS... parenting, pregnancy, politics and many other things beginning with p. I appreciate SN doesn't begin with p, but that's one area of life I've learnt about on here. I know MN's not a library, and that SN members aren't there to ensure my education, but IMHO it is a valuable - and key - part of MN. It is by parents, for parents. All types of parents who have all types of children.

I think its creation, eidsvold, was 'needs driven' - it made sense in terms of traffic on the server / topics / structuring conversation space, attending to users' interests etc. etc. It's good that it exists, indeed it is second only to 'pregnancy' for number of topics !!!!!

If a newbie clicks on topics, there are 96 (if I've counted correctly) topics to visit. I imagine it would be completely possible to miss SN. Further, from the sounds of it, most people don't go straight to topic areas, they use active convos to see what's going on.

you know what hub - I am big on educating the world about sn and down syndrome especially (just ask dh )but some days - I want to take my teacher hat off - I get so tired of having to educate people and frankly I even get to the point of being thoroughly fed up with it all - sometimes I want to rage at the world and stamp my feet and say life sucks and it is unfair - what I don't need is someone jumping on my back about a posting. AM sure you can appreciate that.

I don't hide ds1 away. But I do choose not to expose him to much mainstream real life. That's for his protection, not because I'm amashed of him (far from it I'm very proud of how well he manages). I also choose to spend most of my RL time with people who "get it" (whether or not they have a child with SN- some do, some don't).

I don't really mind what happens with the SN section because I choose not to post much about any of my children on mumsnet anymore (one of the threads I asked mnet HQ to delete was about ds3- they obliged).

I used to use the SN section for support, I don't anymore, although I might use it for more practical advice. I don't use it because I became aware of there being a large number of lurkers (not regular posters) on the SN section, on mumsnet as a whole I guess, some of whom were doing a good job of misinterpreting my feelings about ds1, and I don't want that to happen again. I felt as if I had betrayed him. I would use a password protected area, but looks as if that's not a popular option and am more than happy to go with the flow on that one, but also exercise my free choice to post elsewhere in a more private arena! I don't really feel a huge need to share ds1's experiences with anyone tbh unless its a 2 way exchange.

jimjams - that's sad, although I totally understand what you're saying. I post very little about dd's/my vulnerabilities now too.

I think much of the teaching is just done by people reading, absorbing, rather than by 'active' teaching IYSWIM... but I can completely understand not wanting to answer questions / just be seen as a DS resource etc. and some days just not being up to it. Also, despite my posts on the yes/ no / what shall we do with SN, for me, ultimately the decision is down to the SN users.... they know their needs and preferences and 'experience' of MN far better than anyone else !

Re - jumping on your back about a posting: 100% agree you don't need it....

jj - can understand your point about a 2 way exchange.

I've only jsut noticed that mumsnet has agreed with removing sn from all topics, beause I have jsut posted abt ds1 and wondered wht it wasn'T appearring. I feel sad that because I have a son with sn myu posts in that section need tobe excluded from the wider community and it would make me feed more inclined to post my concerns in another topic in futrure. I value both the parents of sn and nt children on my situatioN.
Also, thoug I fully understand that parents of sn are not posting to educate others about children with sn, I have learned a lot about varied sn from this board and will be sad to lsoe this. I felt that this knowledge qas valuabel in the integratuation of children with sn into wider societry and not being isolated as they had been in the past. I would love people to talk to my ds and recgnise that he does have special neeeds rather than me having to explain why he takes every comment literally or behaves innapropriately or rudely. Social disorders such as asd still widely misunderstood or unnaccepted.
I read the thread but can't remember who suggested it, but a warning that you are posting on a thread abt a child with sn might be far maore appropriate. Even as a mother of a child with sn I've read a thread posted in sn then realised afterwarrds where it was posted. I think that would be beneficial in promoting a little udnerstanding and tolerance. There will always be thise who do not understand what it is like to live with a child with sn (postives and negatives), and I think that if you post on a public forum that is something tha has to be faced. The only way to really shield from that is to stick to msn, but that isn't so different from any other topic.
I am not ashamed of my son. I don't want to hide him away, he is beautiful, funny, articulate, kind - in his own way! He might not be the same as a nt 4yo, but I love him to bits and refuse to be ashamed. I will not shield him behind protected forums.

Oh dear... Mumsnet is becoming a very different place .

Anyways, just wanted to say thank you to the people posting in the SN topic because if I had not been reading the SN convos it would have been far longer before we suspected my DN was autistic.

So, thanks to those threads a child wasdiagnosed early and started therapy asap. I know that you are not here to educate the public, but there are so many questions which I would like to ask that I don't dare to ask anymore, even when they are mostly about food.

Anyways, please don't forget to pay a visit to the allergy topic from time to time, many of us do not have a SN child but... there are some points where our needs and knowledge intersect.

I'm concerned about any new users to MN who won't realise about all the "wiht, wihthout,include,exclude" buttons - and as a result will use only the first button - "active topics" and never seen the one for SN at the end of the row. So never visit it even though they may actually need the support.

I often used to read the SN topics - didn't comment often - and learned a lot from them - take a completely different attitude to lots of things related to SN now as a result. There have been that I have followed for a long time - but I know for a fact that I'm not going to remember to click on a button at the end of the row - espexcially as I only noticed it because of a thread about it!!!

Hi all,
Can we just reassure you that we are not trying to hide anyone or anything away. For a while now many of the posters who use the special needs boards have said the current set up isn't working for them and indeed many have either stopped posting altogether or are posting much less and using a private yahoo group more. As a result we wondered whether a private area on Mumsnet (by private all we mean is non-public and password protected) to run alongside the public SN boards might be worth a try. The idea to drop SN off active conversations came up during the discussion of a password protected area and we agreed with most that it seemed a sensible thing to try - to try to ameliorate the problem of folks stumbling on threads in active conversations and not realising they applied to special needs situations and consequently posting insensitively.

As most newcomers tend to arrive at Mumsnet via the home page and then the talk home page, which lists all the topics, we are confident that people who were looking for a special needs topic would find it this way.

As a general rule we think that if any area of the site isn't working well, we should explore ways to make it work better. There's not much point insisting on no change (to special needs or any other topic for that matter) if the result is that many of the mumsnetters for which it's primarily designed don't use it.

But we do understand how it is possible to misinterpret the removal from active conversations as "editing out" - which is extremely unfortunate. Rest assured our motives are exactly the opposite - this move is entirely designed to try and allow the SN area be as helpful to those who use it as it can be.

I don't agree at all but I can see that you are trying to keep some sn posters happy

and I very much hope that you reconsider as obviously do others

but at least for the moment 'all topics' and the other buttons along the top do not say 'without special needs' and I think this needs to be made more explicit

Or have a link at the top of active convo's to the SN board, or message pointing you there.

still think that me and Flame's idea about the sensitivity warning a la SWMNBN is a good one

of course I would though since it was our idea

Hmmm. I'm uncomfortable about this now, though I can see both sides of the issue. I have no specific sn connection, but have contributed to sn threads and learned a lot about things I knew little about and other mners too in the past.

Have just noticed the button at the top.

If I click am I being voyeuristic??

Somehow that's how it feels

Yes, I think the sensitivity warning is a good idea too. And maybe remove the facility to post without previewing?

Thank you for suggesting different ways of doing things Justine. I think you're right that it is nowhere near as active as it used to be (you'll know anyway as you have the stats! ) Sorry there seems to be no solution, but thanks all the same for trying. (I'm still practically horizontal after my mumsnet holiday so I think HQ are the bees knees atm anyway )

I am genuinely undecided about the password protected area. I do think that the 'main' SN thread of MN should be non-negotiable for all the reasons Cappuccino outlined.

The special needs section was something that really impressed me when I started coming to MN. I would hate to see it become optional.

Have just seen the button at the top and I think it's a very good idea . The threads could be easier to find and, it serves as a warning (in terms of allowing distracted users to see they are getting into a special area where some common advice on child rearing may not apply.

As for the private area, if the posters feel more protected there, I think is fine. One problem I have spotted is that there are always some persons who are and have been regulars of Mumsntet that descriptions about their particular conditions (as in current conditions) are not mentioned anymore which in turns make new and non regular users more likely to say something inadequeate mainly because they are unaware of the background.

Orlando - personally I wouldn't associate anyone including sn in their preferences as voyeuristic, I would see it as including all the topics in their 'view' of Mn, but perhaps taking that extra half second's worth of 'consciousness' to remember that threads they click on about food or behaviour or language or whatever may well come from a sn perspective.

I have included it because so many MN 'mates' use that section so it's a ay of keeping up with some of their news that gets mentioned in passing. - just as I know I will see other posters in other sections.