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Disablist language and deletions

3 replies

BOFtastic · 17/03/2014 01:43

Sort of on the back of another thread, I've noticed recent deletions of the word 'moron' as disablist.

I''ve done some googling. It was used among a couple of other older terms, idiot and imbecile, by Henry H. Goddard, a psychologist at the turn of the 19th century to grade people of "low intelligence", and it was taken up to justify eugenics. So distasteful, yes.

Is it just that Goddard actually coined 'moron', and the other terms were pre-existing? Goddard himself disavowed it shortly afterwards, and it hasn't been in use medically for a very long time. I very much doubt that people who use the word are directly referring to learning disability- the word in that sense is long-obsolete. Much like the word 'cretin', which has a similar history.

Language changes, we all know that.

The issue gets more clear-cut, I think, when similarly-originated terms are used as insults separate to their initial meaning. It is NOT ok- regardless of the speaker's meaning and motivation- to, for example, use 'gay' to mean 'pathetic', because it is still primarily used to refer to people's sexual orientation, and making the word an insult is demeaning to them. Also words like 'retard', because alongside its general use, it is still used to abuse and insult people with learning disabilities.

That, in my opinion, should be the rule of thumb: if the initial meaning is long obsolete, fine; if it still gets used in a discriminatory sense about actually-existing groups of marginalised and oppressed people, not fine.

So after thinking about it, I don't think I agree that the word 'moron' should be deleted as disablist language.

So what do people think?

JustineMumsnet · 17/03/2014 10:35

Hi Bof,
That's interesting - thanks for raising. We do get lots of reports about use of the word moron from MNers who think it is disablist, and more offensive and, than, say idiot or imbecile. Would be good to get their perspective on this thread....

RowanMumsnet · 19/03/2014 13:25

Thanks v much for your thoughts so far. We're just stickying this in Special Needs: Children (as well as in Site Stuff) to make sure it gets seen by the posters there as well.

It's a thorny issue and one that we do struggle with sometimes (as we're sure you've noticed Wink). For every person saying they think 'moron' is fine, we have another person reporting the thread or post for being disablist. And obviously, some terms are more borderline than others.

So we'd love to gather some more opinions - anyone else want to have their say?

JustineMumsnet · 21/03/2014 10:57

Hi all, so our current position is that we don't allow hate speech or anything that breaks the law. We also will delete anything reported that we see as being unpleasant about vulnerable groups/minorities.

BOF's suggestion for a rule of thumb for deletion on language makes sense to us and is pretty close to where we are at present. She suggested we delete words if:

a) they are terms currently, or very recently, used in an ordinary descriptive sense about people with disabilities, because they are converting that description into something pejorative; and

b) they are terms which get used in an unpleasant way by rude or bigoted people to directly demean and belittle people with disabilities. While we still have nasty people who bang on the school bus yelling 'mong', 'spaz' 'or 'retard' (for example), then it doesn't matter if the poster on mumsnet isn't using it to refer to disability. Regardless of their intent, they are still cruel words which serve to oppress and insult the disabled.

The grey area is what we mean by "recently". We would pretty much always delete 'spaz' or 'retard' I'd imagine - and I doubt many would object to that, but there's very little consensus, even on this thread, about 'moron', 'moronic', 'cretinous' etc

It would be great if we could reach a consensus but without it we would rather not have cast iron rules on actual words themselves but instead use the above guidelines and revert to the big principles on a case-by-case basis when we are in a grey area; i.e. is this in any way interesting or making anyone's life easier? Does it add to the debate? Is it in the spirit of the site? Is it just mean? Does it feel disablist?

Do continue to add thoughts as and when you have them.

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