<<whispers>> Was there ever any clarification about whether the issue with GF was swearing on here?

[hunkermunker]

MN Towers, if you'd prefer it if this was deleted, please do so.

But I'm nosy. And I want to know. Please?

(I didn't swear in this, though I was tempted to...childish or what?!)

yes that is an interesting quote from mp.

Dino- genuine question again- is the reason that so many libel cases settle before court, because people have libel insurance (I had no idea such a thing existed - how on earth does it work).

personally I'd like to know what " After studying Hotels and Catering in Edinburgh, she had an opportunity to become a maternity nurse and discovered her flair with babies" from her biog on her site means

is a maternity nurse a medical qualification? was there any training involved. The use of the word 'nurse' would imply so and I'd love that to be clarified because the way it is phrased it sounds like she just started looking after babies and decided she was good at it

Jimjams, I honestly don't know much about it, I was just reading some stuff from another law firm about the recent rash of internet libel cases and it was mentioned in there as a good idea for anyone who had a blog etc.

Does nobody else feel that the reason mumsnet is being singled out is because they are in direct competition with the GF machine? I mean I found my way here via the best parenting book I read when I was pregnant (and I read them all). Mumsnet has parenting book and a free forum, GF has parenting books and a pay forum. The guardian doesn't.

Twiglett she doesn't have any formal training, no

Obvioulsy she has formal training in hotels and catering

not babies

and from a marketing perspective if you use your name as a brand to promote your opinions and advice, from which you then make money, it is patently clear that the general public will see the 'name' as a brand as that is what you are aiming for.

I think then it is understandable that those who disagree with the advice will not talk about the advice as belonging to the book but belonging to the author

however I still agree with Moomin .. I am sorry the actual person behind the 'Gina Ford' brand has been hurt or insulted.

Carmenere, I don't think MN is the only parenting site dealing with this at the mo, but thanks to Justine, Carrie & co and a really loyal and growing membership over the years, this site is perhaps the best known and it is certainly very busy. J & C have regular radio slots and sometimes go on TV, They have made a television series. Mumsnet has clout.
I too am really sorry that individuals' feelings have been hurt in this, but IMO in complying with points 1-4 MNHQ have covered that side of things.

mp, the fact that your Natural Parenting quote was from 2 years ago makes it more significant IMHO, not less - the lady has obviously been making a habit of this and the "personal attacks" on MN something of a red herring?

My italics. Wonder if the NP site still has the post in question?

Twiglett, morningpaper et al - Do you really think that you are helping matters by pursuing these posts? If you genuinely think that you are improving the world with your posts, then who am I to object? But it seems to me that your posts are only going to make things worse - for reasons I expressed earlier. Surely abstaining - even if you are completely in the right - is justified here?

I think it has been cached Jan. I too am mightily intrigued that the NSPCC was discussed in this context...

I have to agree with Bloss - any further comment about GF on here is surely just pouring oil on the flames?

Don't know what the original post was, there's no record of it.

It might have been something along the lines of Gina Ford books being banned by the NSPCC, which has been a popular myth (OBVIOUSLY) that has been posted on various sites over the past few years.

However, there are lots of posts on the Guardian website which just say things like "GF is a " which you would think are more libellous. I'm surprised they have not been touched.

bloss: It is a totally bizarre situation - it's normal for people to discuss it and try to understand it. Especially when they feel it is extremely unfair.

I know it's normal, morningpaper. I'm just asking whether you think it's helpful.

My priority here is to try to get this dispute resolved and Mumsnet secured from threat. I don't think even this 'normal' discussion is going to promote that.

I think it's helpful to know that Mumsnet is not by any means the worst offender in the obvious 'libel' stakes.

Look I could go on all these threads and start asking whether people's posts were "Helpful"? It's a bit patronising. It's a TALK forum.

Anyway, you revived the thread with your claim that lack of self-restraint from MNers had caused this problem. It had been dead for an hour.

Throws pegbag on floor and storms off

Anyway, I'm not sure I agree with the theory that the most helpful thing is to stop talking about it. It could just as easily work the other way by making GF feel like she's won.

Does it matter if she feels like she's won if it makes all this go away?

On the other hand, I have seen posts on other websites where people have posted about this whole debacle and many of the responses have been "Who is Gina Ford?" Now that's gotta hurt a lot more than anything posted on here.

No it wouldn't matter, Freckle, as long as it really did make it go away. What I meant (but did not explain clearly) was that if someone is throwing their weight around a bit, if they start feeling like they are getting what they want by doing that then often that will make them get worse and worse rather than better.
We don't know what's going on in GF's head (and trying to work it out is what a lot of this discussion is about) so it's anybody's guess what effect this discussion might have on her.

Morningpaper - I'm completely in your corner!

The fact that this is an open forum on the Internet means we can discuss whatever we like. Beseeching us to shut up is a bit daft! If anything is libellous it should/would get pulled. If the 'system' can't cope with that then the 'system' is at fault, not the posters!

It's a bit like giving kids a box of toys and saying, "here are the toys, but don't play with them, oh no, they're only here to be played with, but don't!"

Mumsnet cannot and should not be able to control or restrain the views of its posters. I repeat, it's an open forum. The sanction of deleting a message or a thread should be used if things get too heavy, but self-policing will never work on an open forum, and neither should it.

Sorry if that sounds a bit anarchic - I am really the most law-abiding person you'll ever meet, but people telling me what to think and how to express myself is like a red rag to a bull.

Have you read all if this thread or do you not care about the position MNHQ are in over this matter?

i agree with much of what you say Bloss - the only thing is you say it is ok to say you think GF's methods may be damaging to children - it is posts along these lines that I have read the most often - and i fear GF objects to any implications along these lines as well as other things.

I agree with StG. I don't like being bullied and railroaded either, and I think free speech is important. However it has been made very clear to us that if we continue to antagonise this person we are gambling not with our own livelihoods/assets but with someone elses - Justine's/Carrie's etc. So to carry on with the "fighting talk" is just plain selfish. And childish.

I'm not being sanctimonious, I've made some of the offending comments myself. But I think it has to stop now!

Yes I have read it all. I was just pointing out the absurdity of the whole thing. And I really don't see why my comment, or MP's, should cause a problem to anyone. How the hell can you police the Internet? It's not just MNHQ that has a problem with that! The libel courts would be clogged up all day if everyone who felt themselves to be libelled on the Internet actually brought a case to court. People, especially children, are damaged daily by images and information that appears on the internet... to put slightly dodgy libel claims in that bracket is laughable.

Comment from Justine a while back.

I do think it's worth fighting for and I think free speech is the most important thing.