Parenting: Cameron's childhood adviser says we're all getting it wrong. Is she right?

[HelenMumsnet]

Morning.

Claire Perry, MP, David Cameron's adviser on childhood, has been telling the papers today that Britain's parents have got it all wrong.

In The Times (£), the Telegraph and the Daily Mail, Perry is quoted as saying...

• We fill every moment of our children's lives with organised activities, "damaging their lives" by leaving them unable to fend for themselves when they go to university.

• We should 'snoop' on our children's text messages and internet exchanges. Perry says that, as a society, we are all 'complicit' in allowing a culture where youngsters can make inappropriate contact with strangers at all hours of the day and night. She adds, "Most parents are too busy, don't know the words, aren't aware their children are doing it. They are living in digital oblivion."

Do you agree with either of her points?

Or not?

Please do post and tell!

Jeez I wondered when the perfect Nordic way if parenting would appear again.

Our kids are British kids,can we just stop with the proclaiming of all things Nordic as being the parenting ideal.

Utterly bored of it!

Well that's not me I don't have the money or energy for non stop activites with 5 kids. I work full time and like to actually sit down some times that's what free time is for they do there thing I do mine. As for coping in uni isn't that what teaching them household chores and how to manage money is for.
Point 2 with e teenager keeping a track of their texts and internet isn't easy but I try they change their passwords and delete texts now knowing I check . The younger 2 are supervised on the pc and don't have phones. Despite My 9 yr old Dd trying

Polka, I dont think you read or understood my post properly.

Is it clear why she made the comments in the first place? - if somebody asked her "do you approve of so called 'helicopter parenting' - is it a good idea to involve your child in as many activities as possible - are parents being led to believe that the only way their child will be able to do a forward roll is if they pay for them to go to activities like the Little Gym from the age of 2?", I think her remarks were justified, particularly as she is supposed to be advising on the commercialisation of childhood. (Although, I think most parents aren't that stupid/well off).

If the question was "what is the most important problem facing children in the UK today", then her reply would clearly have been misguided.

Also, I know those days aren't coming back, but I think the golden age for students fending for themselves at uni was when they got full grants and housing benefit...

The weird thing about say The Times (front page) article I read was it appeared to make no reference to the context for the remarks at all (as far as I understood)

I agree with merrymouse that the context could make some difference ....
but she should have taken pains to ensure she gave them some context and perspective anyway otherwise she would look like an out of touch loon !

Curryeater.

No, its all in bits as my computer was really playing up at the time. I always meant to put it all together properly and should do really. If I can manage to get something together I'll send it pm, but don't expect too much. I only went to a glorified Polly, but I did get a 2.1.

If anybody is interested Plato made some good observations, and of course Piaget learning through play. Another good theorist was Huizinga, I liked him.

I don't think there's anything wrong with lots of activities if the child has time and energy for play.
Sometimes it turns out to be life changing for some.
My own dd plays 4 musical instruments and dances 3 times a week. Attends a string group and choir. She decided she wanted to give up school because the extra curricular music activities were what she wanted to do for a career. She is only 9 now and left school last year, obviously after much deliberation. I know though by now that something would have to have given, as the poor kid was nearly burnt out.

"Are parents being led to believe that the only way their child will be able to do a forward roll is if they pay for them to go to activities like the Little Gym from the age of 2?"

But if you PAY to send your child to The Little Gym, you are DRIVING THE ECONOMY and that is what this govt is all about.

(I congratulate myself, smugly, that my 3 year old can do everything in water that those who have been to "swimming lessons" can do - not because I taught her, but because she taught herself. No way am I paying for swimming lessons till I believe she will come out of them able to swim tens of lengths, in a stroke. But if everyone was like me, reusing everything and scrounging pennies and cutting the unchewed halves of dcs' abandoned apples into segments and serving them for lunch, then the economy would collapse. Oh right, it has, because no one can afford to do anything else)

I think I was a bit too flippant with my first response to Point 2.
I agree that children need guidance, monitoring and reining in where internet and social media are concerned - and I will be doing it as necessary with DSs when they are old enough (currently 5 and 5m, so not an issue just yet)

I wonder if the people who allow their well-below age children to play 18+ games on XBox etc. check up on their children's internet usage? Just curious, really - no agenda with that question.

DS1 does 3 activities outside of school - football, dancing and swimming. Swimming = essential life skill, non-negotiable. Football = once a week currently, although DH wanted him to join the local U6 team, which would require training 1-2 nights a week and matches every Sat, which I think is a bit much (DH never got around to organising it so too bad). Dancing should have only been once a week but the schedule got messed up so now it's 2 nights a week. DS1 gets plenty of free play time as well and is really good at imaginative play (I like to listen to him but I'm not allowed to interrupt/ join in/ comment in any way)

Curryeater

Yes, I think many parents are led to believe that they need to have lessons and activities from a very early age.
I don't think it is always a middle class thing, but think it is mainly considered middle class as they can afford the fees. I have also heard some parents of dc wanting to gain places at selective schools say the extra curricular activities can be a deciding factor in entrance, if there are many with the same academic scores.
I see many dc doing lots of activities and often wonder if they have any time for play, considering they may have homework as well.

Rather than worry about the very small minority of youngsters whose lives are ruined by too many extra-curricular activities, Clare should focus on the much larger group whose families are unable to afford extra-curricular activities and are unlikely to attend university.

She is wrong in my opinion.

Children are afforded far more rights and respect than the 50's, 60's and 70's and that is right. No one wants to see corporal punishment and early school leaving back to where they were.

People hark back to the halcyon days when children could roam the streets without constant scheduling. Well guess what, lots of children in deprived areas still roam the streets day and night and we dont see them outperforming their over-scheduled middle class counterparts.

The biggest determining factor in a childs health and happiness is the circumstances of their birth. Born poor and neglected, well you are probably going to stay that way.
Born poor but loved and nurtered, well just maybe if you are very bright you might just climb out of poverty but no one will help you or your parents.

So really little changes, despite the chatter

I'm sorry but I don't agree with dc born into poverty not being able to access extra curricular activities.
Some LEA's, I'm not sure if its all, offer free lessons and activities in sport, music, drama, dance etc. I know because a few low income families attending the groups my dd attends are entitled to them. Children born into poverty/low income families are encouraged to engage their dc.
It is becoming more apparent that those attending are either very poor, very rich, with not so many poorer working class.

more was that at me? I didn't specify which particular lower-income band i was referring too, just that some parents couldn't afford extra-curricular activities.

It totally depends where you live.
Until recently we lived on a large estate, and the kids there had basically the same childhood (as far as running round outside, and no activities), as I had.
Some of them have good parents, and will probably do OK in school etc, whereas others were just totally left to their own devices, and went off the rails.
It's not the scheduling or not scheduling of activities that counts for much, it's the culture you live in, and whether respect for others and education are valued in your world, or not, and also whether your parents are coping, or, for whatever reason, they are not.
Those are the things that matter to children's development.

For the record, though morethan there are NO free activities in my LEA, other than one museum. No free swimming, dance, gymnastics for those on low, and very low, incomes.

I see what PureQuintessence is saying about children in Norway being more independent etc, but I have been to Norway, and I can see that there would be a world of difference being "independent and street smart" in Norway and independent and street smart in , say, Tottenham.
The "scrapes" that a British urban kid might get themselves into would likely be a Hell of a lot more serious than in Norway, so I just don't think it's comparable.

IfNot

^It's not the scheduling or not scheduling of activities that counts for much, it's the culture you live in, and whether respect for others and education are valued in your world, or not, and also whether your parents are coping, or, for whatever reason, they are not.
Those are the things that matter to children's development.^

Totally agree.

AnaisB.

Yes, I was replying to you, but also in general really. I am passionate about extra curricular activities being available to all, so at every opportunity I have I mention LEA free activities. There are so many parents who are unaware it exists. .

IfNot.
That is a huge shame, but have you checked it out? I think you need to be in receipt of certain benefits such as job seekers, tax credits but not WTC and be entitled to fsm, etc.

I think there needs to be a balance. Let your child do the activities THEY want to do, not the ones YOU want them to do. Family times is also important. I would rather spend time with my children then catching up with friends when they are at home. We like to eat as a family everyday and talk at the dinner table but appreciate this is not possible for everyone. In that case you need to catch up whenever you can. There is nothing more wonderful for me than have spent time kicking a ball with my boys or taking them to the park.
It was interesting watching This Morning on Friday with Ruth and Eamonn and Eamonn wasn't too pleased about his son going to club Sat morning, Sat afternoon, Sun morning, he was yearning for family time. Ruth on the other hand was arguing that their son enjoyed it. It's a difficult one, but what's simple is that the child's happiness and well-being should come first.

I think Cameron is firing up a much needed debate and good for him. Too many things are thought of as 'untouchable'.

Just because the debate has been good I wouldn't necessarily give Cameron the credit !

Why not ?....its unlikely it wasn't passed to him before it went public.

I'm amazed that anyone thinks this is firing up some new debate . The argument that contemporary childhoods are not 'free range' is hardly new and has been the subject of public and media debate for years. Similarly children's safety on the Internet isn't exactly a new issue that Claire Perry has 'discovered' for Cameron.

It seems to be going over much the same ground as several previous debates.

Yes, I mean that talking about the value of play in children's lives is generally a discussion worth having, but it's hardly a new idea !

I like the idea that parenting is somehow seen as 'untouchable' in public debate. (Hollow laugh)

Morethan
Local authority services are being cut and there are now very few that offer free extracurricular classes. Library services are under pressure etc.
From what I can see there are very few services and to avail of them you have to be very clued into the system.