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Child-free flight zones: what do you think?

293 replies

HelenMumsnet · 07/02/2013 10:26

Morning. We've just seen this article in the Telegraph about a Malaysian airline which has launched 'quiet zones' on selected flights, where children under the age of 12 are not permitted to sit.

It seems that a recent poll of Telegraph Travel readers also found that nearly 70% would support the introduction of child-free flights.

What do you think?

Should people have the right to travel without being 'disturbed by noisy children'? Or not?

OP posts:
BoffinMum · 12/02/2013 11:33

Yes, but exhausted people have a habit of kicking off. If you don't like it, get a job as a hermit.

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 12/02/2013 11:34

I just think telling someone to go fuck themselves isn't good form, really.

I don't like to think that the options are that, or be a hermit.

NotADragonOfSoup · 12/02/2013 11:35

And if you don't like people doing their job at airport security, don't fly.

NotADragonOfSoup · 12/02/2013 11:36

Telling someone who is doing their job to go fuck themselves is inexcusable.

KatieMiddleton · 12/02/2013 13:21

Wow. What a ridiculous sense of entitlement and rudeness on your part Want2be. Just because you're a parent doesn't mean you can break the rules! Babies and children travelling are given special dispensation already. To think you deserve extra special treatment because you are a parent is breathtaking.

Yes we've flown round the world with baby/children and never had any problems because we stuck to the rules and were polite. When we accidentally left suncream in our bag we apologized and binned it. The powdered talc and formula always caused our bags to be emptied and we would move to the side to repack.

I never took offence because being blown up is a much greater inconvenience than understanding and following procedures.

RedToothBrush · 12/02/2013 13:34

Want2bSupermum, no sympathy.

Read the rules on whats allowed in luggage. Airlines publicise them well. Its
especially true if you are flying to the US, as they have extra strict rules and enforce them heavily.

You were poorly organised and only have yourself to blame. You can take cream on flights - provided you take it in the appropriate quantity.

I actually smirk at idiots who have all their really expensive make up and perfume removed from them at security these days as its not hard to find and follow the rules.

KatieMiddleton · 12/02/2013 13:41

Muji do really good little pots for decanting product into. Try those rather than inappropriate outbursts. You will all feel better :)

Jins · 12/02/2013 13:42

You can buy cartons of formula and baby food in the departure lounge once you've cleared security.

I get very nervous at airports anyway and I was fit to scream after following one family with the attitude described above through security.

The rules are clear. Just pack what you need, get there early and buy what you need for the flight in departure

KatieMiddleton · 12/02/2013 13:47

I think I may have been stuck behind entitled mum too. She kept repeating "but I have children!" as if that is justification for massive cans of hairspray and water bottles Hmm

You can take as much powder as you like in hand luggage so long as it's within usual weight limits and you declare it at customs for places like Australia who have restrictions on importing food.

Jins · 12/02/2013 14:06

It's not as if the rules aren't clear either! I check every time I fly as I was under the impression that I couldn't take food through and there's not much gluten free stuff in departure or on the plane. Turns out solid food is fine. Powdered formula is fine and I've never been refused boiling water on a plane.

I watched a family with twins of less than a year old negotiating the airport last week and it was faultless. They should give seminars!

exexpat · 12/02/2013 14:17

Quite agree that want2besupermum has only herself to blame. The rules are clear and haven't changed for ages. I fly with my DCs (and have been flying in sole charge of two of them since the younger was 4months old), always take food, but have never had any trouble with security because I follow the rules.

If you choose to fly with small children you need to be properly organised rather than expecting special treatment just because you have children with you - see lots of comments from people earlier in the thread about how not to disturb other passengers on flights. Travelling with children requires forward planning, organisation and a lot of energy.

Jins · 12/02/2013 14:50

How long is the flight from Denmark anyway - couple of hours tops I'd have thought.

How many nappies and bottles woud you need? How much barrier cream?

Want2bSupermum · 12/02/2013 17:03

Flight from Denmark to NY is 8 hours. The flight is normally delayed by at least an hour and we have to be there 3 hours before take off. I plan for a minimum of 12 hours worth of supplies for DD. We change her ever 2 hours on flights as she pees and poops so much so I pack a ziplock bag with 6 diapers, a small pack of wipes and a tube of cream. I then have a spare ziplock bag for spares. I have another ziplock with 6-8 diapers in there, more wipes but no cream. Bottle wise I had 4 bottles which were empty. She took the lids off and touched the nipples with her unwashed hands. I then had four sterile pots of formula which were opened and contaminated. The fruit sauces were in foil seals so once opened I had to throw them out as they didn't have lids. For the flight I would have had 4 meals with me. Three for the trip and a spare for emergency/ first meal when we get to our destination.

DD was on lactose free formula which wasn't available at the airport. They also didn't have a good range of diaper creams (choice of two). We use a 40% zinc oxcide cream which they didn't have. They also didn't have sterile bottles. We ended up getting a pack of wrapped straws and bottles of water. They didn't have gripe water and the one we had was contaiminated when she tested it by touching the dropper with her finger.

I do know and follow the rules. I didn't have a problem with her taking the cream as she was right. I had an issue with her attitude towards us. To be clear I told her to go f herself after she pushed our things along (some of which fell on the floor) and told us to hurry up as we were holding others up. We live in the US and had left the US and the UK with said tube of diaper cream.

It is shocking that people on here think it is ok for someone to touch food that is going to be eaten (we are not talking about touching a banana peel) with unwashed hands. The security workers are touching all sorts of things that have been goodness knows where. At airports you have people coming together from all parts of the world, all bringing their unique mix of germs through security. That lady had touched goodness knows how many bags, let alone the contents. There was no way I was going to risk giving DD any of the food that she had touched. Quite funny how I see this as common sense while others see it as entitled. Also, how would you feel knowing at the start of your trip you were going to have to scramble to find food for your DD before getting to the gate?

RedToothBrush · 12/02/2013 17:17

I do know and follow the rules.

Well obviously you didn't otherwise she wouldn't have needed to remove things from you...

NotADragonOfSoup · 12/02/2013 17:32

And none of that makes it OK to tell someone to go fuck themselves.

Want2bSupermum · 12/02/2013 17:43

As I said, I didn't have a problem with her taking the cream. I had a problem with her pulling apart everything in the diaper bag. Is it necessary to open up every diaper, every container of food and touch said food with unwashed hands?

As it happens I bought the cream from the travel section of our local baby store. It was a 4oz tube of cream and didn't have ml on it. The lady said 4oz is 120ml not 100ml. I explained i didn't know how many ml it was but that it was diapercream for DD, not for myself or DH, and I didn't expect to have any left by the time we reached our destination as DD gets diaper rash easily. She was short with me and I just said 'Ok - bin it.' It wasn't said with attitude or malice. I 'get' she was just doing her job.

What wasn't necessary was for her to decide to pick on me. She abused her position and the end result was that security guidelines were not met. DD didn't have a boarding card and was able to proceed. If this woman had been competent she wouldn't have let us through for that reason. It was very rude to empty all of my ziplock bags into a big pile and then use her arm to push everything to the side, especially as I had tried to put down one of the trays but was told to stand back and not touch anything. This was when things fell on the floor and were covered in applesauce (which she had opened). When we got on the plane we realized we lost not only diapers but pacificers, a spoon and the spare ziplock bags that use for dirty diapers/clothes/puke bags. She got the fbomb because of this, not because of the diaper cream per se. While I dropped the f bomb I did wipe the floor clean with a wipe so others who were having their shoes tested wouldn't be stepping on applesauce.

KatieMiddleton · 12/02/2013 17:50

Fair enough, I would have been annoyed with her behaviour and attitude. I have never been treated with anything other than courtesy and often kindness when travelling with children. I still wouldn't have told her to fuck off but I can understand in the heat of the moment you may have done although I wouldn't be defending it later.

Your subsequent posts put a different spin on things.

Want2bSupermum · 12/02/2013 18:16

Dragon I take it you fly with young children on a regular basis?!? I hope you get to meet her with a squirmy 11 month old.

The problem with air travel today is that people who fly 3-4 times a year on short haul flights think they are frequent flyers. They are not. When you fly out at least twice a month and do at least 5-6 long haul flights a year you are a frequent flyer. I have been a frequent flyer up until this year and won't be for the next few years as my new job is local for the time being. DH is a frequent flyer (currently in Dallas/Houston) this week in my 39th wk of pregnancy. He has only gone because United guarenteed him a seat on the next flight back home if I go into labour. They do that for frequent flyers - top tier with United.

When I was downgraded with SAS what surprised me the most was the number of passengers who were buzzing the crew. When I needed water for DD I got up and walked to the back of the plane with my bottle and DD. These passengers were buzzing every five minutes. If you are thirsty then ask for two drinks when they come around with the cart or a full can of whatever you want. Even when flying business or first (not flown first in a while as most flights are now business/econ only) I either get what I need to drink when they are distributing drinks or stop off after a trip to the bathroom.

Want2bSupermum · 12/02/2013 18:27

Yeah - can see how it is kinda of a drip feed and apologies for that. On the couch today after running around yesterday. Due this Friday and finished work on Saturday. Exhausted.

kickassangel · 12/02/2013 19:32

Flying is public transport, children are part of the public. The cost of airline flights is actually phenomenally low for the distances travelled. If anyone travels by budget public transport, they should expect to meet other members of the public.
Banning people by age, sex, color, religion etc is discrimination.

If you don't like one of those groups (fat people, young people, brown people, etc) then you shouldn't venture out into the public.

I would actively campaign for any airline that did this to be taken to court for discrimination.

In fact, if anyone knows of any campaigns to stop discrimination, please provide a link.

BoffinMum · 12/02/2013 20:01

If she did all that I think you should put in a formal complaint about the way you were treated.

choccyp1g · 12/02/2013 20:07

I've read most of ths thread and suddenly had an inspiration. Many people complain about the child behind kicking the seat. and asked "why don't the parents stop them?"

Thinking about my DS, who still has to be reminded about kicking the seat in the car, (to be fair, he has moderate sensory issues), I realise it is actually very difficult (without shouting!) to stop a child kicking unless you tie their legs down.

Aha! Why don't they have an extra seat belt at leg height?

Haven't flown for a few years, but we book the seat in front of DS for one of the adults, DP and I argue over who gets the front seat.

Want2bSupermum · 12/02/2013 20:40

boffin I wrote a letter and was sent a form back to fill in that was in Danish only. I don't speak Danish and DH is too busy to fill it in. DH told me they are all union employees so no point in complaining as nothing will change. I sent the unfilled form, my original letter and a new letter to the embassy asking them to fill out the form for me.

Want2bSupermum · 12/02/2013 20:57

choccy An extra seat belt at leg height?!? Wouldn't that be abusive?!? Would would well for drunks though and I would love to buckle up DH while he sleeps! Oh the fun that could be had.......

Backinthebox · 12/02/2013 21:19

OK, I'm going to bite here. I pass through airport security up to 4 times a day (the job, you see,) and have experienced pretty much every kind of security-caused inconvenience going, in dozens of countries across 4 different continents. I am also a mother of 2 small children, and thanks to the perks of the job I have had the delights of taking them all over the place. I know a bit about airport security. I'd say I am a frequent flyer!

Sadly, the massive increase in security over the last decade is almost entirely down to the desire by Al Quaeda to blow Americans out of the sky, and the rest of the world now lives with that. It also means I am now locked in a small bullet-proof box for up to 12 hours at a time. Thank you America!

The first thing to bear in mind about security is that there are rules. They are to be followed by EVERYONE. I fly the damned plane, and even I have to give up my bottle of suncream etc if I have the wrong sized bottle. (The excuse that I am ginger and neeeeeeed suncream is of no interest to them. Neither is the rational that I will be flying the plane and could crash it and kill everyone on board with my bare hands if I wanted to and the suncream will not help me in any way.) The quantities allowed are published and displayed prominently in every airport. It IS an unfortunate fact for Americans that most of the world measures their liquids in metric - however the TSA have thought about that and do display quantities in mls and ozs. For future info - 100mls is 3.4oz. A frequent flyer ought to know that kind of thing.

The next thing to address is the fact that your bags are likely to be searched - there are random checks, and anyone who is found to have liquids in larger than 100ml containers, for whatever reason, will be subjected to a more in-depth search. The more stuff you have with you, the more stuff the security staff will have to search through. Millions of passengers a year pass through the world's airports - they are working fast as they have a lot of people to get through. So they are unlikely to be delicate with your stuff, and they are definitely not going to allow you to stand around and unpack it slowly and methodically yourself. It's worth considering packing light. Even with a child, you do not need that much guff - what did you need 4 empty bottles for? Could you not wash them? I live in constant amazement at the amount of stuff people feel they need on the plane with them for what is actually less than one day. I see families who have everything but the kitchen sink with them - they always seem quite stressed. And I've seen the opposite end of the scale - the flight I operated last night had a woman travelling with her 3 young children, she only had one bag with her for the whole family. Our cabin crew said she was chilled and calm and her children a delight to have on board.

One of the things to remember about security staff is that it is a mind-numbingly boring, repetitive task with very little job satisfaction. They have very little to entertain themselves with other than to exercise their power with people who piss them off. I make it a golden rule never to piss off security. I've seen it happen with airline crew who get cross at them, and even if they are the captain of a flight going in half an hour, they will take as long as it takes to conduct a search. Telling them they are delaying a whole flight will only make them go slower and ensure your pants are waved around in public. Telling them to go fuck themselves is about the best thing I could imagine you could do if you wanted to find your belongings being raked through and thrown around, although you seem to have found this out for yourself!

At 11 months old, it is unlikely your child will need everything to be sterile. I am bemused by your 11 month old needing gripe water - my 2 both suffered from colic but grew out of it by about 3-4 months. I'm also quite amazed that you have an 11 month old and are 4 months pregnant. A medical miracle! Wittering on about travelling in First/Business doesn't impress me much either. Every flight I do has lots of people travelling in them. Some of them are lovely normal people, and some of them are over-privileged, self-important twits. Two out of the 3 occasions I have had to call the police to meet passengers on landing have involved the behaviour of Club passengers. On one of those occasions it was to separate 2 VIPs who were having an argument about who was the most important VIP! You had to see it to believe it.

I think what I am trying to say is calm down a bit, read the rules, and don't expect to be treated like a princess. Having children should not entitle anyone to behave in a poor manner anywhere. But neither should it mean that you are excluded from public transport, which is what the thread was initially set up to discuss.

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