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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Cross-party inquiry into unwanted pregnancy: your views?

168 replies

RowanMumsnet · 13/09/2012 12:18

Hello,

We've been asked by Conservative MP Amber Rudd to contribute to a cross-party inquiry into the factors underlying unwanted pregnancies in the UK, and ways in which the unwanted pregnancy rate might be brought down. (Other members of the Inquiry include Labour MP Sandra Osborne and LibDem MP Lorely Burt.)

The background information from the Inquiry states: 'Over the last decade, the age-standardised abortion rate has risen by 2.3 per cent. Beneath this statistic are some striking trends. For example, the abortion rate for women in the 30-34 age group has risen by around 10 per cent in the past three years, which is in stark contrast to other countries like New Zealand, where the rate has decreased by 5 per cent over the same period. Repeat abortions have also increased over the past decade, rising from 31 per cent in 2001 to 36 per cent in 2011. Although unwanted pregnancies in teenagers have been steadily declining over the past decade, the UK also remains home to the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Western Europe.'

The Inquiry is interested in hearing your views on the following:

  1. The issue of unwanted pregnancy in the UK.
  2. The figures suggest that there are increasing rates of abortions among some age groups in the UK, increasing rates of repeat abortions, and high levels of teenage pregnancy. What are the underlying reasons for these trends? And what role (if any) does government have in tackling them?
  3. What lessons can be learned from previous attempts to tackle unwanted pregnancies?
  4. Are there any measures the government should be implementing to tackle unwanted pregnancy?

Plus, of course, anything else you want to say.

Thanks,
MNHQ

OP posts:
Tee2072 · 16/09/2012 17:11

Even the non-Pounland ones aren't all that expensive any more.

Himalaya, about a year or so ago my local chemist put up a sign that they weren't allowed to give out any prescription drugs without a prescription. I assume even if you paid for it.

But, I am in NI and some of the rules are different, so that might just be an NI thing.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 16/09/2012 17:12

Hmm I did offer to pay as I think I had to previously but no, I needed the prescription (for which I had to fax a request from my office, collect after work and go to 24h Tesco to get filled)

I suppose it's not "emergency medication" but had I been a less sensible and mature Grin type, I might have risked it for the faff involved (we don't have condoms in the house - no need)

ZiaMaria · 16/09/2012 18:24

Abortion is no longer viewed as a heinous crime, and is much more readily available than it previously was (as it should be). Long gone are the days of having to chain smoke and threaten to do yourself harm unless the docotr signs the form.

With regard to contraception, I can't comment on the younger age groups, but I suspect that many older women are put off hormonal contraception by the tales of side effects, and then there are the stories about options such as Implanon getting lost in people's bodies.

OutragedAtThePriceOfFreddos · 16/09/2012 20:10

I'm not sure if this has already been said, but I think access to contraception is a big problem. Most of us get it from a GP. There are family planning clinics in my area but they are in places where there is no parking and I'd ever have to walk for miles to get there, or drive further to a hospital and pay £4.00 just to park. The fact of all that and the fact that it would take up most of one of my precious days off puts me off.

Most GP surgeries have a telephone system where you have to enter into a phone competition at 8am when you have other things to do to get an appointment. That's fine when you really are ill, but not so much on a normal day.

I think being able to pre book appointments with nurses at a GP surgery for contraception would help, just because it would be more convenient for so many people.

If non convenience puts me off sorting out contraception, it must be much harder for teenagers with less access to transport or who have chaotic lives.

TeWiDoesTheHulaInHawaii · 16/09/2012 20:23

I haven't had a smear yet because my local places to do it are all e bus rides away... it's not that they're that far in miles, but I live in a small town and don't (can't afford to) drive. So 3 buses with 2 small children or my husband has to take the day off work.

More advanced contraception is the same, we've ended up just using condoms.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 16/09/2012 20:32

In my surgery nurse does pill check but doctor has to sign prescription which means unless you are lucky and one is in tea break when you come out, you might need a second trip to collect it.,

maristella · 16/09/2012 20:51

Economic factors were a major consideration when I terminated. I'm not sure I could go through that again, so if I was to fall pregnant again we would be in poverty.

If there were more accessible childcare facilities, without ridiculous prices and waiting lists, and if there was adequate before and after school childcare, then women like me would not feel they have to terminate a wanted baby to keep their existing children out of poverty.

I hope to buy my council house and remain free of the benefit system, yet this would be impossible if I was to fall pregnant again.

WhereYouLeftIt · 16/09/2012 22:24

" For example, the abortion rate for women in the 30-34 age group has risen by around 10 per cent in the past three years, which is in stark contrast to other countries like New Zealand, where the rate has decreased by 5 per cent over the same period."

There has always been contraceptive failure. And there always will be. No method is 100%, and never has been, even when used correctly. In the past I would think that most couples (I'd assume ages 30-34 would predominantly be in couples/families) finding themselves with an unplanned pregnancy would have gone into shock for a day and then gone ahead with a slightly bigger family than they had really planned for. Personally I have quite a few friends who could say they fell into this category, but since I am 49 we're talking about unplanned pregnancies 10-20 years ago.

But that was then. When you could run a house on one salary; when, if your house was too small for another child you could move to a bigger one; when childcare was less expensive if both of you worked. Now, in the current economic climate, it is far harder to stretch to that.

You mostly need two salaries, so another child means more childcare costs. This country has the highest costs in Europe I believe? So expensive that these costs can outstrip one of your salaries (the so-called http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/sep/01/soaring-childcare-costs-work-nothing position). So then you've got to make that decision, does one of you become a SAHP and kiss their pension/career goodbye, knowing that they'll probably be relegated to minimum wage jobs after being out of the job market for a few years? Very risky. And one hell of a big change to your life and your financial future. (And as an aside, you've only got to read the MN boards for a while to see how many women get shafted post-divorce by deadbeat dads. No matter how secure you believe your marriage to be, it is only sensible not to allow yourself to become so financially vulnerable.)

And as for moving to a bigger house - ahahahahahahahahaha! Even if you are not currently in negative equity; even if the equity you have left will stretch to a deposit; even if the banks will give you a mortgage; it is a HUGE cost these days. Houses are so expensive; rents are just as bad. And at the back of your mind is the belief that the housing market is still a bubble waiting to burst; and if you bite the bullet and take on that bigger mortgage it could all go horribly wrong and you will be the one who bought at the top of the market and lived the rest of your life in negative equity, unable to downsize, move or in any way dig yourself out of that hole. Again; very, very risky.

So, faced with this huge risk to the finances of your entire family, already existing as well as not-yet-existing - what is the sensible thing to do? You're happy with the current size of your family. You had no intention of getting pregnant. It's not just an accident, it's a potential disaster.

Of course more women in the 30-34 age group are opting for abortion in the face of an unplanned pregnancy. The only surprise is that the rate has risen by only 10 per cent in the past three years. It helps enormously that the stigma of having an abortion has largely disappeared, for which I am thankful. There are circumstances where it is by far the best option you have.

joanofarchitrave · 16/09/2012 22:28

[applauds WhereYouLeftIt]

WhereYouLeftIt · 16/09/2012 22:30

Aargh! That was meant to read (the so-called "pay-neutral" position).

TheDoctrineOfSnatch · 16/09/2012 22:37
BertieBotts · 16/09/2012 22:38

Abortion was only made legal 43 years ago, so think about it, today's 30-34 year olds are likely to have parents in the (roughly) 50-60 year age bracket. Which means that abortion was made legal in their teenagehood or childhood and thus the parents of the 30-34 year old age group now were largely the first generation to have abortion available as a legal option for all of their adult lives, and it must have been a really big thing at the time which would have likely made a big impression on this generation, one that they would, probably, pass down to their sons and daughters - the 30-34 year olds of today.

All of the other factors of course are important and I think they definitely play a part but I wouldn't underestimate this one, which is a HUGE positive as far as I'm concerned. Two generations after abortion was legalised, I'm not surprised that acceptability of it is ever increasing and I don't think that in itself is cause for concern. (The financial reasons and contraception problems are.)

77777777777777777 · 17/09/2012 00:59

I had a termination aged 23. I'm glad I did. I had been in an abusive relationship with a man who was determined to get me pregnant. I now have children with someone loving and caring, and am so happy that I did not have the other child who would have linked me forever with abuse.

I will be teaching my daughters about men in a way I was never taught. There are some great links on here, for example identifying losers

However if the government wanted to reduce terminations of pregnancies of this type, which can occur in any age group, I would recommend teaching in schools about relationships. Many people just do not know what is and isn't a healthy relationship, and it would be good for everyone if losers, as described in the link above, were eliminated from the parenting pool.

ThisIsMummyPig · 17/09/2012 05:10

I was an accident for my mother, over 30 years ago, and I have seen how it made holidays difficult (2 teenage boys and a 5yo girl) and she simply couldn't afford anything. I went on very few school trips etc. I want to give my children better than I had, so I don't want more than 2.

Also I have benefitted from the excellent maternity leave we have in this country, and kept my original job. I don't want to take another year off now that so many people are being made redundant (local government) as I might never get another job if I lost mine while on maternity leave (who wants to employ someone fresh from maternity leave, or has been out of the workplace for a few years?)

I have a coil, but if I did get pregnant, I wouldn't think twice about getting an abortion. DH would be gutted though.

GetOrfAKAMrsUsainBolt · 17/09/2012 07:19

Great posts whereyouleftit and bertie.

I think also there is an assumption that having an abortion is always going to be traumatic and an ordeal. Of course for many women it is, especially if it is a much wanted pregnancy and there are doubts about the procedure. However, for women who are 100 percent satisfied that abortion is the correct choice for them, there are plenty of women who have a termination which doesn't then end up causing heartache.

It is never a knee jerk decision, and I think that the women (much loved by the Daily Mail) who abort multiple pregnancies willy nilly and use abortion as a contraception are very few indeed. Most women realise the importance of what they are undertaking. Howevr, this doesn't and should,kt mean instant distress, regret, trauma and guilt. My NHS abortion was managed very well, I was fortunate that all HCPs I encountered had empathy, understanding and were consummate professionals. This is first and foremost a medical procedure and I was lucky not to encounter and moralising on the way.

GetOrfAKAMrsUsainBolt · 17/09/2012 07:19

Great posts whereyouleftit and bertie.

I think also there is an assumption that having an abortion is always going to be traumatic and an ordeal. Of course for many women it is, especially if it is a much wanted pregnancy and there are doubts about the procedure. However, for women who are 100 percent satisfied that abortion is the correct choice for them, there are plenty of women who have a termination which doesn't then end up causing heartache.

It is never a knee jerk decision, and I think that the women (much loved by the Daily Mail) who abort multiple pregnancies willy nilly and use abortion as a contraception are very few indeed. Most women realise the importance of what they are undertaking. Howevr, this doesn't and should,kt mean instant distress, regret, trauma and guilt. My NHS abortion was managed very well, I was fortunate that all HCPs I encountered had empathy, understanding and were consummate professionals. This is first and foremost a medical procedure and I was lucky not to encounter and moralising on the way.

WhereYouLeftIt · 17/09/2012 12:12

"I think also there is an assumption that having an abortion is always going to be traumatic and an ordeal."
TBH I've always felt that this is a myth put about by the pro-lifers. Anything offered as 'evidence' never stood up to common sense, let alone investigation. Emotive crap to frighten women when they're feeling vulnerable.

GetOrfAKAMrsUsainBolt · 17/09/2012 12:34

Tbh I felt rather hesitant about posting that - and please to reiterate I am not puttoing down the many women whose response to having had an abortion was traumatic. But just that there are many responses, and that having an abortion does not have to mean you will be upset and heartbroken and full of regret.

I do think that there is an issue with PSHE education at school. DD was taught about the morals and ethics of abortion in her RE class (and her RE teacher was a committed christian who was vehemently opposed to abortion). As it was the teaching about this was too emotive and moralistic in tone to be fair. Fair enough I agree it will always be an ethical topic, however when you are teaching 15 year old girls, it is a frightening position of power to state that abortion is morally wrong.

Anyway, that is a real digression, sorry.

Blu · 17/09/2012 14:03

I agree with you, GetOrf.

Hullygully · 17/09/2012 17:49

Fill schools with posters and condoms, make sex totally open and talked about and make contraception normalised and easily available. Stop the abstinence bollocks.

Hullygully · 17/09/2012 17:50

And tell people better an abortion than an unwanted baby.

Hullygully · 17/09/2012 17:53

yy women have always had abortions, since the dawn of time and herbal discoveries.

Make morning after pills available and free everywhere, much easier than stopping drunken unprotected sex.

Hullygully · 17/09/2012 17:53

Or ban alcohol.

alwaysonthemove · 17/09/2012 18:23

here's my take on it

5 years ago, I'ld have said that I support other people's choice to have an abortion but I wouldn't ever have one

now?
I would have one if I became pregnant, what changed?
5 years ago we would be able to move up the property ladder, if not now then we'ld be farely sure it'ld happen soon. Now we're stuck in our first tiny home, we can't move even though we both work and have good credit, the rungs on the ladder are miles apart and jumping up one is so much less doable!
Saving is crap (rates!), plus our money left over to save is less than it would have been on 2 people in our careers 5 years ago. Our careers are progressing but so much slower than they would have in the past. And then there's the higher cost of living eating in to what we could have saved

We have 2 already, 5 years ago a third wouldn't have been a disaster, now it would be!

Of course we are very serious about contraception, but my GPs practice is all about the coil which I wont have and not keen on nuvoring which I'm hoping for, plus DH is worried about his request for a vasectomy being deamed unneccesary and a waste of NHS time when they could just pop me on high dose hormones (which make me worry about mine and other's safety when I'm on them)

I think its sad that as a person who wouldn't ever choose to have a termination I now definitely would! If there was more job and housing mobility I would not I would find a way!

mcmooncup · 17/09/2012 18:37

yy to Hully

We still barely talk about sex to children without the titillated and embarrassed approach being present. That's where we start, not messing about with abortion laws and whipping up the moral debate.

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