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Are Mumsnet rules just for the little people?

21 replies

Penandink · 12/02/2012 14:54

"Troll cries make MNers look silly. If you think the person is not real, you don't have to post - nobody has a gun at your head! If you suspect the person is false and trying to hurt, or get money, tell MNHQ! How terrible if genuine people - people in trouble, people at the end of their tether - come here as their last hope for some help and advice, are savaged and go off again, feeling terrible and that they don't have anywhere left to turn to?"

www.mumsnet.com/info/netiquette

There is a very real problem on Mumsnet that there are a small group of posters who wilfully ignore this "rule" as and when it suits them. I think the problem is now institutionalised in MN as being the norm and acceptable.

These people just make stuff up about people they've never met. Once they do this other people pile in believing the bullshit, and then acting on it. The troll-hunters also don't seem to stop and think how their assumptions might affect - or even damage the rest of the site. Lets summarise their position: " I am OUTRAGED and APPALLED by something that may or may not have happened but can't be proved, because although I say it did, I won't provide any evidence"

Sometimes this place is more like a bear pit rather than a community of support and OBJECTIVE thinking and response.

They have their bit of fun and when their target gives up - off course they do having been hounded unmercifully - the Hunter claim that proves they were a troll. Disagree with the unters and sooner rather than later they will accuse you of being a man (their ultimate insult) or a troll. A suggestion that you should leave the site usually follows.

The "silent majority" don't put up with this. They just leave...

RowanMumsnet · 12/02/2012 19:31

Now then, now then. I'm after a nice quiet Sunday evening, do you hear?

Just to be clear: discussions of our trolling/troll-hunting rules is, of course, fine.

Yer actual troll-hunting/personal attacks are not.

For those of you who report suspected trolling activity: we ALWAYS look into it. It may take us a while to come to a proper conclusion, but that doesn't mean you're being ignored or not taken seriously. We're very sorry for the frustration and irritation caused by this, and by our necessarily opaque responses. We wish there were a better way to do it, but we've yet to find one.

And whatever this thread is, it's not an AIBU, so it's been moved to Site Stuff.

RowanMumsnet · 12/02/2012 19:34

Shall I withdraw it for you, Lilac?

RowanMumsnet · 12/02/2012 19:41

@BeerTricksP0tter

Is that a new MNHQ tactic? Looming up behind posters saying "Shall I withdraw that for you, Madam?" in sonerous and menacing tones?

Could catch on - I like it!

ohmigod this is a GOOD idea

OliviaMumsnet · 13/02/2012 17:19

Just to reiterate what Rowan said earlier up the thread and we'd remind you to report anything that you're concerned about to MNHQ.

Thanks

OliviaMumsnet · 13/02/2012 17:27

@hathorinareddress

Thing is though, Olivia, you read something, it is obviously bullshit a great big steaming pile of shite, full of inaccuracies and errors and just could not be the way it's being told.

And you do the decent thing and report to HQ

And you get back "we will take a look" "there is nothing to suggest"

It is very frustrating.

But you do understand, don't you, why TSSDNCOP?

RowanMumsnet · 14/02/2012 14:38

My inbox is like this

Please be nice.

RowanMumsnet · 14/02/2012 14:44

@AnyFucker

Rowan, you must have been a very bad person to be given the "Mad Toosday in half term" shift

Helen hates me, innit

RowanMumsnet · 14/02/2012 14:46

@RealitySickOfSick

Who is Derbacnitlotion2009, Rowan?

Well now. All I can say is that we can't see anything to back up the assertion that it was the OP.

RowanMumsnet · 14/02/2012 14:49

@Maryz

Sorry Rowan Smile.

But I haven't reported anything today. Does that make me nice or not?

Well... I don't suppose there's any chance of everyone just, you know, logging off and going out for the day is there?

Never ever tell anyone in authority that I said -this I will be sacked

RowanMumsnet · 14/02/2012 14:52

No they haven't told me Sad Like I said, I'm not very popular. Rebecca and Helen are probably laughing about it on MSN right now

RowanMumsnet · 14/02/2012 15:36

@AnyFucker

Rowan, you are on fire baby

In my defence AF, not all the 'Message deleted by Mumsnet.' messages are ENTIRELY LEGITIMATE Angry

HelenMumsnet · 16/02/2012 15:49

Afternoon all.

We've been following this thread, all through all its chicken-ny, knittingy deviations, but we realise it's been a while since we posted.

So we thought it might help to clarify a few points that have been raised...

First off, our stance on trollhunting is the same as it ever was. It breaks our Talk Guidelines. And, if any trollhunting posts are reported to us ? or noticed by us once we're aware of a particular thread ? we will delete them.

This is because :

  1. If you're shouting "troll" (or implying it by thinly coded references to known trolls or suspected trolls), you may be wrong. And that can cause all sort of upset, especially if the poster being 'trollhunted' is vulnerable, in need of support and then finds everything they post is rubbished and queried. Before you all shout "Pfft, as if that really happens!", we can tell you that it has.
  1. If you really have unearthed a troll, you'll only bring a giant glow of satisfaction to their face by shouting "troll" on the thread. That's what they're after, after all: lots of drama, lots of indignation, lots of attention.

That's why we ask you, instead, just to report the poster you think is trolling to us. The more info you can give us about your suspicions the better: remember, at this point you probably know more about the poster than we do. We'll always acknowledge your report, and we always follow it up.

And, to address those who say all we can do is check IPs, that's not true: we can do far more than that.

That said, we have to admit we have dropped the ball in recent months with a few oft-reported posters. That was due to a combination of a change in the way we do stuff at MNHQ and good old human error.

But you can bet your bottom dollar that we are SO on it now: MNHQ is basically Troll Detection Central at the moment, with a whiteboard and daily briefings and suspect photofits and everything.

We completely understand the frustration some posters must feel when they report a possible troll and then nothing seems to happen (other than us saying we'll take a look).

Obviously, we're not going to post details of what we do but we hope it might help to say that some trolls are easier to spot/deal with than others. So, while a bored-at-half-term teen posting "Penis!" all over the boards is a cinch to spot, confirm as a troll and ban, those who have been carefully spinning out a tale over many months may not.

As we hope you all know, our stance is always to err on the side of being taken in, rather than of accusing a genuine poster who's in need of support of being a troll. So it does follow that we're not in the habit of making hasty decisions.

What would help us speed up our decisions? Two key things

  1. As much info as possible in your reports to us. And additional info coming in from you as you spot it. Even if you've reported a poster to us once already, it still helps if you report them again - either to nudge us or to tell us something else that concerns you.
  1. Not trollhunting! Ironically, the more you trollhunt, the slower we catch the trolls. Because we're having to divert our attention from Troll Detection Central duties to deleting the trollhunting posts. And answering all the reports that come in about the trollhunting posts.

Hope that answers the main Qs and explains what's going on a little more clearly. I'm not actually in the office today and I have limited access to t'internet but I will try to check in on this thread regularly this afternoon and evening.

And finally, a message for the OP: we've replied to your mail to us but haven't heard back yet. Is your registered email address the right one to contact you on, OP?

HelenMumsnet · 16/02/2012 16:18

@KatieMiddleton

Yeah yeah Helen, but what I really want to know is do you have a large table with the boards laid out like a map and HQers carefully placing red dots and pushing little troll statuettes around with a big stick a la The Ministry in WWII?

I have already agreed with all your post up thread

Actually, you're not far wrong. Justine won't buy us the little WAAF hats, though.

HelenMumsnet · 16/02/2012 16:29

@Pinot

I can't even remember what I wrote, but it was norty. I'm a good gal ish

Helen?

Think that's called a Freudian slip, Pinot Grin

Tbh, I can't remember precisely but I think you referenced a suspected troll. Am sure someone from t'office will reply to your mail in a bit.

OliviaMumsnet · 16/02/2012 18:56

ye gods, nipple clamps and evil grins

Pinot, I will find out what's occuring.

HelenMumsnet · 16/02/2012 19:40

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius

>

Helen - do you know that Pinot pisses in the corner of every wolef lair we make? Like deliberately and everything! She's a vair bad girl indeed (and I am pround to know her). Grin

Oooh - and on the offchance that you are reading this thread:

Please can we have an evil grin smiley - like the grin smiley but with leetle red horns, perchance? Pinot and I would use it, like, aaalllll the time!

No - because you would Wink

HelenMumsnet · 16/02/2012 19:50

@Honeydragon

Ha ha you guys got the Big Bad I Said No!

You calling me Big and Bad

HelenMumsnet · 16/02/2012 19:51

@HelenMumsnet

[quote Honeydragon] Ha ha you guys got the Big Bad I Said No!

You calling me Big and Bad [/quote]

Well, OK, would settle for Medium Size on a Good Day and Not Too Bad Most of the Time

HelenMumsnet · 16/02/2012 20:03

@Honeydragon

If they banned me I might go out in to the Real World amongst actual human folk. I doubt Helen would want that on her conscience.

Good point, well made.

OliviaMumsnet · 16/02/2012 20:15

@Portofino

Did Op reply yet MNHQ?
Oh, you know me, any excuse to roll out : TSSDNCOP

OliviaMumsnet · 16/02/2012 20:35

@Maryz

Does anyone else ever read TSSDNCOP as "we haven't a fucking clue"? Smile

^^ see that Smile, that was an ingratiating Smile that was Grin

I see your passive aggresive smiley, MaryZ and raise you a Hmm
and would remind you of my access to the Big Red Delete Button.

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