Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk

Back to thread
Original poster

Reply to Justine

30 replies

TheOriginalFAB · 18/12/2011 18:46

The first objection I'm afraid I can't really buy - Most of the UK population uses Facebook. Most Mumsnetters use facebook. It's a bit mad to object to facebook on principle - it's like objecting to people.

This is just daft and is irrelevant whether you buy it or not. Just because "most of ths population" use FB doesn't mean everyone on MN is going to like it. It is like saying you don't buy that some people won't eat meat as the majority of the population are not vegetarian/vegan. And it is nothing like objecting to people Hmm

The second objection I just think is misguided, as I've explained. Users' privacy is no more compromised by this button than it ever was.

It might not be "no more compromised" than before but the point is it is much more visable now and before people might not have been aware of the link button but now they are and they don't like it.

So should we change something because some people on this thread dislike it even if we think they are mistaken to dislike it? Even though what they are objecting to is already in place?

You may think we are mistaken not to like it but we are part of MN and without posters you just have a website with adverts no one sees. And the fact that it is already in place is not the issue. Before lots of posters weren't aware of it so couldn't object.

I've been doing this long enough to know that new things are never well-received - but it doesn't always mean they are bad.

That comes across as patronising and lots of posters are telling you this is a "bad" idea and lots of people don't like it.

For me this is a huge loss as I feel unable to discuss something I would have appreciated help with and that makes me feel sad. And namechanging doesn't work for me as someone always guesses who I am and outs me.

Go to post
MNHQ

HarktheHelenMumsnetAngelsSing · 19/12/2011 16:03

Hello.

We are here and reading this thread - and not ignoring you. Apols for not actually being able to post till now.

OK, as we've posted before, we are aware of some of the techie problems with the Like button and we're working hard to fix them.

The glitch that some people have found, where you don't get a pop-up box saying you're about to post the 'Like' to your FB wall: that turns out to be a bug in the code Facebook supply with the button. It's a bug that Facebook are aware of but, obviously, we can't change Facebook's code for them. We are, however, looking into ways of getting around this bug ourselves.

The other problem that people have identified - when they click 'cancel' in the pop-up box and the thread is still posted to their FB wall - is not actually a glitch; it's a misunderstanding (probably initially inadvertently spread by me Blush) of what the 'cancel' is referring to. The pop-up box is actually asking you if you want to add a comment to the thread you're liking on FB, so the 'cancel' refers to that - cancelling your comment/or your intention to add a comment, not cancelling your wish to 'Like' the thread on your FB wall.

If you don't want to 'Like' the thread, after you've clicked 'Like' (accidentally or not), you need to scroll back over the 'Like' button on the Mumsnet thread, and the little tick in the top left of the 'Like' button will change to a little cross, you click, and then it removes the 'Like' from your FB page and cancels your Like on the thread (which means that the Like counter will readjust).

As for the problem of people finding that pressing the 'Like' button posts the thread to the FB walls of other people in their family, that's something that can be solved by making sure anyone using FB on a shared computer logs out of FB before someone else uses the computer. They'll also need to disable their cookies, which everyone using a shared computer should be doing really, to safeguard themselves and each other.

MNHQ

HarktheHelenMumsnetAngelsSing · 19/12/2011 16:08

@Trills

Thanks Helen.

Is there any code available with the option to make "liking" the thread truly a 2-step process? Facebook are not doing a very good design job if they think that people will be able to guess that "cancel" means "proceed without adding a comment".

That's something we're looking into as well, Trills. We certainly hope so.

MNHQ

HarktheHelenMumsnetAngelsSing · 19/12/2011 16:54

@BobbinRobin

And horribly compounded by the fact that you can not only post accidentally to your own FB page, but to the FB of other people who use your computer AS IF YOU WERE THEM.

This won't happen, BobbinRobin, if people using your computer log out of their FB page before you use the computer - and disable their cookies (see my previous post).

MNHQ

HarktheHelenMumsnetAngelsSing · 19/12/2011 16:56

@DoesntChristmasDragOn

So, what you are saying is that if you click it, whether on accident or on purpose, it posts immediately to your FB page? Thats pretty crap isn't it?

Yes, it's not ideal

But that's how it's been since our FB link in the Viewport bar went live nearly a year ago - and it's only been noticed now.

Granted, it something we should have been aware of from the get-go. But, now that we do know, we're working on ways to get round/fix it.

MNHQ

HarktheHelenMumsnetAngelsSing · 19/12/2011 17:30

@IAmFuckingPissedOff

So, now that you have admitted that it isn't a glitch, it's a design fault, and unfixable (so it isn't a two-step process and accidentally hovering could cause it to link inadvertently), can you consider my other questions please:

Are you considering being able to customise our profiles, so that we can each individually hide the like button (as we can hide the dangly thing)?

Are you going to remove it from old posts?

Is there anywhere we can ask for topics to be excluded? Since you weren't particularly careful about the list of topics to be excluded and have since widened it, can you widen it some more?

No, we're not considering either of those at the moment, IAmFuckingPissedOff.

MNHQ

HarktheHelenMumsnetAngelsSing · 19/12/2011 17:31

@BobbinRobin

Thanks Helen. Re the FB link in the Viewport bar, has that always done a 'Like' to the thread on that page at the time? I really never knew that, I always assumed it was just a general 'Like Mumsnet' button.

Yes, it has BobbinRobbin. The general link to our Mumsnet page on FB is right up at the very top, to the right of your PM inbox.

MNHQ

HarktheHelenMumsnetAngelsSing · 19/12/2011 17:42

@DoesntChristmasDragOn

"...This won't happen, BobbinRobin, if people using your computer log out of their FB page before you use the computer - and disable their cookies (see my previous post)."

So, you think people should change the way they use their own computer because of a change you've implemented? Confused

Well no, not just because of a change we've implemented; if you're sharing a computer with others, you really should do it anyway - to safeguard yourself and the others.

MNHQ

HarktheHelenMumsnetAngelsSing · 19/12/2011 17:43

@IAmFuckingPissedOff

Actually, can I ask one more question.

The button you all are referring to on the "viewpoint bar" - is the viewpoint bar the dangly thing that we can disable? Or is there yet another button elsewhere?

Yes, it's the dangly thing - which you can hide (but not disable).

MNHQ

HarktheHelenMumsnetAngelsSing · 19/12/2011 17:50

@QuintessentiallyFestive

Helen, respectfully BOLLEAUX.
  1. Facebook provides numerous templates with code for buttons that businesses can use.
  2. Your own designer need to implement and TEST the code within the framework of your own code.
  3. A good coder will be able to add the code that you want, within the html of the button provided by FB (which I have studied myself as I have supplied relevant code to our own designers to tailor to our own needs)
  4. Facebook is more than happy to liaise. (Or maybe I am just lucky to have friends working for Fb)
  5. Many organizations have tailored html button code provided by FB to make a two step process. In these popups you can a) change your mind; b) add a comment; c) chose which wall to add it to, your own, other pages you administer, or a friends wall. It is perfectly possible, if you want it to be.

That is exactly what we're working on, Quint.

MNHQ

HarktheHelenMumsnetAngelsSing · 19/12/2011 17:51

@IAmFuckingPissedOff

I have just had a look.

The button you keep referring to as having been there for a couple of years (or however long). The reason I haven't seen it is because I hid the viewport bar.

So I didn't have a button.

You made it hideable, because there was hoo-ha at the time it was introduced.

Why were we allowed to hide the facebook link button in the viewport bar before Thursday, and today we aren't?

I really, really don't understand this Shock.

Yes, we made it hideable because some people complained that they didn't like it dangling down at the top of threads all the time. Afaik, no one complained about the FB Like button on it.

MNHQ

HarktheHelenMumsnetAngelsSing · 19/12/2011 17:54

Ok, I'm aware there are still some questions we haven't answered but I'm sorry to say I have to go now.

I will try to look back in this evening. And I will make sure we update Justine on what's being said ? although I'm afraid I can't guarantee when she will read our update.

MNHQ

Tech · 19/12/2011 18:41

Hi, there are some misunderstandings here. Leaving aside the merits or otherwise of posting threads to FB, just on the technical level:

The facebook like button is a one-click process by Facebook's design - if you are logged in on facebook - i.e. you clicked remember me on facebook when you last logged in. If you are on a shared computer, clicking remember me on facebook, or not logging out is a risky thing to do as the next person to use the computer can just go to facebook.com and "be" you. That's nothing to do with Mumsnet.

Facebook's own intro to the like button reads "The Like button lets users share pages from your site back to their Facebook profile with one click."

Facebook MIGHT pop up some options when you click (at their discretion) depending on how your Facebook account is set up (for example they might ask if you want to post on your personal page or a business page you manage.) In most but not all cases they invite you to provide a comment.

Again, that's not something we at MN know about at all. We don't have any data about your facebook account or its behaviour at all. There is no link between your facebook account and your MN account. If you click like when you are not logged into facebook, a facebook login prompt will appear in a popup asking you what facebook account to log into and post to.

We do take this issue seriously and are looking into changing the like buttons to a self hosted version that would ask you to click a second button and something like "please click again to confirm you want to post this thread to your facebook wall." As long as that works satisfactorily it should be ready in the next day or two.

But, we can't control or access your facebook account in any way. If you are worried about cross posting from sites that have FB like buttons to your facebook account, you should always log out of FB after using it (by clicking Log out explicitly on facebook.)

MNHQ

Tech · 19/12/2011 18:55

TBH I think it is always possible to log out. You could for example just go to facebook.com. If the browser is logged in, click log out on facebook. Then continue browsing. From that point forward, clicking "like" wouldn't post to a facebook account as there's no facebook account logged in.

The other questions are policy issues for Helen and crew, and not for me to comment on really, but technically you can always log out, even on a shared computer.

MNHQ

Tech · 19/12/2011 18:58

Hi BR, that's true about the accidental click. That's why we are looking into the two-step process. That should prevent accidental posting.

If we just gave the option to hide, you could still accidentally post to FB if you were logged into FB but not logged into MN. We wouldn't know to hide the button as you wouldn't be logged into MN, but if you were on FB the button would still post to your FB wall. Basically that button talks to facebook not us.

MNHQ

Tech · 19/12/2011 19:03

Actually custy that's not quite right. By the time the box pops up, you've already posted. The popup is just letting you add a comment if you wish. But if you do nothing, the "Like" still happens.

MNHQ

Tech · 19/12/2011 21:09

Hi C-Sisters, just fyi, fb has announced its intention to phase out the older "share" buttons in favour of like buttons. I'm not sure why they have done that really - often I want to share something I don't particularly like, but want to draw friends' attention to (like a news story or similar.) But done it they have.

MNHQ

Tech · 19/12/2011 21:16

We do know what it does. We control what information it sends to facebook. We just don't have any ability to get any extra information beyond that from them. And they don't have any ability to get any more information from us.

MNHQ

Tech · 19/12/2011 21:32

Yes, some of the people at MNHQ misunderstood how the button worked and gave some wrong information. But that's all. We really haven't been trying to mislead. If we had, we wouldn't be able to do so for long. How these things work is published information and easily verified. If we were telling untruths we'd be found out very quickly.

MNHQ

Tech · 19/12/2011 21:35

Which is not to say that it's not regrettable that we gave the wrong info. Clearly out internal communications failed, and we will work on how we ensure that doesn't happen again.

Anyway, I'd better sign off as I'm getting out of pure tech stuff and the shed might indeed get locked and/or flooded with irate MNHQers.

MNHQ

Tech · 19/12/2011 21:36

OUR internal communications even....

MNHQ

HarktheHelenMumsnetAngelsSing · 20/12/2011 20:25

Evening all.

It's my day off today but we didn't want another day to pass without some MNHQ presence on this thread, so here I am for a wee while.

As you may have noticed/realised, there aren't that many of us at MNHQ at the moment, so it's been hard to respond to your questions, objections and comments as quickly and as effectively as we normally do. And for that we do apologise.

We're sorry, too, that we managed the release of this Like button so poorly. As we've posted before, we didn't expect the uproar it generated (because the Like button/Share button has been there for ages in the Viewport bar already) but we should still have made sure there were more of us around to answer your questions, and we should have tested the button more thoroughly.

For those who may have missed our previous posts, we're beavering away right now on a coding workaround that makes clicking the Like button a proper, fail-safe two-step process (with a genuine chance to Cancel, if you clicked on the button by mistake). Tech tells us he's almost there with this, so we're hopeful that we can release it very soon (after some testing Xmas Smile).

Just a couple of extra points: Facebook haven't paid us any money to put this button on threads. Yes, we hope the button may drive some traffic Mumsnet's way - which, in turn, may bring in some more revenue to run our servers, pay our staff etc - but there was no 'deal' with Facebook to get the button put on top of threads (or in the Viewport bar).

And yes, just to clear up any confusion, the 'f' button right at the very top of every MN page (to the right of your PM inbox) is a button that, when you press it, takes you to our MN page on Facebook. It doesn't paste any links to your wall. But the 'f' button in the Viewport bar (and at the top of threads) does paste links to your own FB wall - and doesn't connect you to our MN page on Facebook.

As for the other questions people are saying we're not answering, we hope you'll take it on trust that we are working on some answers! As you probably all know, Justine is on her hols and only intermittently contactable. We'd like to think we're pretty good at second-guessing what her answer would be to most of the outstanding queries but we trust you'll understand that we don't think it's a good idea just to post a "guess" answer on the boards. We'd rather wait and post the real deal.

And yes, before you all say it, we should have figured it would be a dodgy idea to release this change just before Justine went on her hols. That was kinda the icing on the cock-up cake, wasn't it? Xmas Blush

MNHQ

HarktheHelenMumsnetAngelsSing · 20/12/2011 20:53

@MmeLindor

Not sure about icing and cock in the same sentence though...

Oh no, do I need to Xmas Blush again?

MNHQ

HarktheHelenMumsnetAngelsSing · 20/12/2011 21:24

Hiyule, did you not see my post earlier on this evening? Please scroll down if you missed it.

And we are certainly not refusing to delete old posts/threads. Are you saying you asked for this - and we said no?

MNHQ

HarktheHelenMumsnetAngelsSing · 20/12/2011 21:30

No need to apologise, IAmNotSoPissedOffAnyMore.

'Tis enough to see you're not IAmSoPissedOff any more Xmas Wink

MNHQ

HarktheHelenMumsnetAngelsSing · 20/12/2011 21:31

Oh, and by the way, hiyule, Off the Beaten Track is here. It's under 'Other Stuff' on the Talk Topic page.

Watch this thread for updates

Tap "Watch" to get all the latest updates