MNHQ .. Can we talk about disability bashing?

[Brownsugarshortbread]

Over the years i have posted on and enjoyed MN.
Sadly there seems to be a growing culture of it being okay to have a go at disabilities, those who claim DLA and those who's children have 'invisable' disabilities such as ADHD and ADD.
The terms 'freak' and 'scrounger' have been batted around and comments from some posters IMO certainly boarder on harrassment and discrimination.

When certain posts or posters have been reported, some have been removed, yet a lot haven't.

And while I agree with free speech, these types of comment or reaction to these comments, are not an education for those bigoted posters. Nor do those whose lives are touched by disability wish to be used to educate those posters.

Disability Harassment

is unwanted behaviour based on disability,
impairment or additional need. Such behaviour may include comments that are patronising or objectionable to the recipient or which creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive environment for people with disabilities. Disability harassment includes inappropriate reference to disability, unwelcome discussion of the impact of disability, refusal to work with and exclusion of people with disabilities from social events or meetings.

excuse me, Mamaz0n

"As i said elsewhere.

Mumsnet. By parents for parents. so long as your child isn't a "spaz" or a "retard"

Good for you Mamazon. MNHQ's behaviour is bizarre (or suspicious).

Hi all,
Mumsnet is a discussion site. We do allow discussion of difficult subjects. So a thread saying "I can't believe my dh called me a xxxx, what do you think?" is very different from a thread saying "I think all xxx are xxxx".

It has been suggested that we have one rule re disablist posts and a different one for racist or homophobic ones but we simply don't and our intention is to treat such posts as equal. In the past we have not deleted discussions such as "AIBU for being concerned that my (white) child is in a that is 80% non white school?" and "Is it wrong of me to be worried that my child might be gay?", despite some Mnetters reporting them and thinking we should. We are, as we say in our philosophy, committed to letting the conversation flow where and when it is informative and not full of bile.

Context is very important in this regard. Where someone is asking a question/trying to work out what the appropriate response is, it would be strange to disallow the MN wisdom of crowds to take effect. Plenty of folks over the years have commented that they've seen things completely differently because of discussions like these. That is a good thing.

But of course, there are plenty of comments that we do and will delete for being simply hateful. Thank you for reporting those as it's impossible for us to watch every conversation.

Particularly if you are not going to comply with Equality legislation. Perhaps that should be publicised widely.

Crowds?
Have you seen how many people IGNORE the direct attacks?
Bullshit.

I do wonder if the " my dh called me a spaz " thread and it's many 'don't be so pc, everyone says stuff like this in private' would have had the same life span if it was " my dh thinks I look like a paki"

@justaboutWILLfinishherthesis

"Our intention is to treat such posts as equal."

So Justine, why do you say you have a low tolerance for terms that are offensive to disabled people, but will delete all the others.

That seems to me a crying example of differentiation. If what you are saying is true, don't you think your written policy should be updated?

I'm very happy to change the wording to include disablist at the opening too (it is of course covered in the break the law clause already). We actually put the extra low tolerance line in in to spell out the fact that we don't as a rule allow people to call eachother disablist words as a regular term of abuse. For example we'd allow "He behaved like a complete and utter twat" but delete "he behaved like a complete and utter spaz."

Lenin
I have long been impressed by your cool headed response to anti lesbian posts.

@justaboutWILLfinishherthesis

To clarify, Justine - if someone starts a thread saying "Should DLA be abolished?" then that's a valid topic for debate.

But if someone is using the term retard in a general sense, will you delete it or leave it?

Leave and delete respectively

WOW what a non response form mn hq, so they are not going to do anything at all,oh what am I not suprised

thats exactly the point i was trying to make Pag.

Whilst i take HQ's point about the op of that thread being seemingly offended by the use of the word, there were sooo many other posts from people saying thinsg like "oh ffs grow up, its jus a word"

I think that a strong message from HQ saying "actually that term is not just a word. It is a highly offensive turn of phrase used as a form or insult and is deeply upsetting to those with Sn and their carers. or indeed anyone with more braincells than feet and as such we will be altering the thread title and deleting all posts with such terms in them"

It sends out the message, loud and clear that those words will not be tolerated. The discussion coudl still take place. she could still be told that she is married to a complet nobcheese of a man, but we wouldn't have to be offended every time we open teh page.

i don't think anyone, including MNHQ, will ever truly understand the impact of such words, unless they have a child with SN.

Part of the difficulty for Justine et al is that there is no sway of opinion.

Disability is the big breasted blonde of the 1970s - it isn't any harm making jokes, stop being a spoil sport.

So mn keep waiting for the outrage that would follow " my dh thinks I look like a paki" but the world is still finding Frankie Boyle funny.

A mean person would print off some of the threads on here and post them in 2030. Mn and many posters would be mortified.

But it is actually not mn s fault that the world does not give a shit. Were that it was so easy...

I think a major point being forgotten here is the 'victims' of disablist abuse are some of the least able in our society to defend themselves. There should be absolute zero tolerance to use of any such words - they are offensive and insulting, disabled people will never be viewed as equal members of our community while we accept the use of such words under the banner of 'freedom of speach'

X-posted mamazon.

Sorry , off topic I know but Lenin that really surprises me. And impresses me more. You were astonishingly elegant in the face of some horrible stuff. I admire that enormously

@Mamaz0n

thats exactly the point i was trying to make Pag.

Whilst i take HQ's point about the op of that thread being seemingly offended by the use of the word, there were sooo many other posts from people saying thinsg like "oh ffs grow up, its jus a word"

I think that a strong message from HQ saying "actually that term is not just a word. It is a highly offensive turn of phrase used as a form or insult and is deeply upsetting to those with Sn and their carers. or indeed anyone with more braincells than feet and as such we will be altering the thread title and deleting all posts with such terms in them"

It sends out the message, loud and clear that those words will not be tolerated. The discussion coudl still take place. she could still be told that she is married to a complet nobcheese of a man, but we wouldn't have to be offended every time we open teh page.

We considered altering the thread title in this case tbh but that would have made a nonsense of the thread and the following posts. We do realise some of you get tired of making the same old arguments, but in truth how else are you going to change people's minds and move people on? These discussions, because people speak so personally, have incredible power to inform and educate.

@Pagwatch

Part of the difficulty for Justine et al is that there is no sway of opinion.

Disability is the big breasted blonde of the 1970s - it isn't any harm making jokes, stop being a spoil sport.

So mn keep waiting for the outrage that would follow " my dh thinks I look like a paki" but the world is still finding Frankie Boyle funny.

A mean person would print off some of the threads on here and post them in 2030. Mn and many posters would be mortified.

But it is actually not mn s fault that the world does not give a shit. Were that it was so easy...

Mnetters almost unanimously were pretty unamused by Frankie Boyle though Pag...