MNHQ .. Can we talk about disability bashing?

[Brownsugarshortbread]

Over the years i have posted on and enjoyed MN.
Sadly there seems to be a growing culture of it being okay to have a go at disabilities, those who claim DLA and those who's children have 'invisable' disabilities such as ADHD and ADD.
The terms 'freak' and 'scrounger' have been batted around and comments from some posters IMO certainly boarder on harrassment and discrimination.

When certain posts or posters have been reported, some have been removed, yet a lot haven't.

And while I agree with free speech, these types of comment or reaction to these comments, are not an education for those bigoted posters. Nor do those whose lives are touched by disability wish to be used to educate those posters.

Disability Harassment

is unwanted behaviour based on disability,
impairment or additional need. Such behaviour may include comments that are patronising or objectionable to the recipient or which creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive environment for people with disabilities. Disability harassment includes inappropriate reference to disability, unwelcome discussion of the impact of disability, refusal to work with and exclusion of people with disabilities from social events or meetings.

thanks Helen

Have had to catch up again.

THANK YOU HQ, for responding and listening.. I do know you have a tough old job and do apprieciate what you do ( heck and I do like MN as well).

And thank you for tweaking :)

And again to everyone who has spent their time on this thread and have contributed really well to The discussion.

I think if we could have a reason of deletion message, and maybe a sticky explaining that guidelines had been tweaked. I would be very happy.

I certainly would see that as an acceptable outcome, and happy to see how that works for a while, before seeing/ debating any changes in future.

I do also thing that now infamous thread title ( and any others like it), could be changed with a warning attacted. Would have solved a lot of greif.

Aitch - because they are the mods so don't they all have to agree with each other? Don't they have to get why people are finding this so upsetting as well as it being a DDA issue?

Otherwise what's the point?

Can't get out of my mind now as an image of MNHQ.

well i've been told countless times on this thread that i can't get why people are upset, because i don't have a disabled child.

i think it's expecting too much of a bunch of (albeit no doubt 'intelligent and broad-minded' staffers at HQ) to feel the way that you do about 'spastic' when not used to insult or attack, or 'freakshow' when used clumsily in support of treating children with disabilities in a respectful manner on television.

it should be enough that it might breach legislation, to my mind, which is after all what the thread is about. (although complicated has explained why neither instance would break the law in actual fact).

Aitch, I personally do think you understand, you have stuck with this thread and been supportive of the general message. As with 99.9% of posters on here.

The trouble is unless you walk a mile and all that that no-one can totally 'know'. And so empathy has to be generalized. I haven't walk a mile in other SN mums shoes, but I know how utterly killing somethings are in my life regarding ds, comments and the effects of those. I can only take on board that it is probably very similar to parents in similar circumstances.

You know, are dc's have a harder life anyway, they will never be able to do things that you would generally take for granted. We as parents have to fight for everything to make things something sort of near a level playing field for them... Knowing that actually it's never going to be that. We are carers, nurses, speech and occupational and physio therapits, education experts, our own childs expert, providers.. And parents all rolled into one very tired often sleep deprived person. And just to top it all off, we then fight the fight with daft and nasty comments.

We get tetchy, fed up and disheartened.

@Threadworm8

Can't get out of my mind now as an image of MNHQ.

Yep, that's me in the pork pie hat - obviously...

The thing with the DDA message is that it is then inevitable that people would argue that actually "saying my wife catches like a spaz" isn't breaking the DDA and i demand my posts arere instated.

It is like a bar, the manager reserves the right to refuse entry, Whilst they usually use the law to explain that it is because they arent allowed to serve drunk people/underage/whatever, it is essentially at the managers discretion and it doesn't need to be because of any law.

Some of the things posted on here are highly offensive without necessarily breaching DDA.
So for it to be a "mn does not alloow such offensive language and has deleted your post" type message it would cover both DDA breaches and 'mere' arseholness

i will be interested to see if it will improve things, I am glad the wording has changed but very sad that that thread titile is still deemed acceptable, oddly although I did ask mn hq about this via email days ago I never got a reply.
I am 100% it would have been deleted or changed had it had n in the title.
but I am just a cranky mum of a child with severe cp what do I know

oh but i'm not saying i do get it, btw, brownsugar, don't worry. i super-duper know i do not, no question about it.

i suppose i'm saying that we don't let victims of crime dictate sentencing for a reason.

The little things make a huge difference, give us hope and keep us going.

You know I danced around the house crying and laughing with joy when ds said he didn't like the feeling in his heels.. You see for 12 years he had never felt them. My NT children wouldn't have had such a reaction from me :)

I think this is partly why people say 'you don't get it', it's just something most people even have to think about.

Aitch - I wasn't implying that you or anyone else doesn't get it, just that they need to to understand why I personally think that the word should have been removed, the poster told why and then given the chance to re-post her thread with a new title.

She KNEW it to be offensive because that was the tone iof her thread. She KNEW that her DP meant is as an insult to the way she caught the ball, assuming that this senario actually happened in the first place.

Benefit of the doubt as per.......

Agree mamazon :)

HQ can we have a sticky pointing out the guideline changes please.. And the deleted because... Things put up?

Thank you

Brownsugar

It is the little things. Nemo has just started pointing at things that he wants. He's 2yrs old.

The first time he did it, I cried. And laughed and smiled for hours after. Like you, I didn't with DD. She started pointing to things at 6 months.

Little things

Agree with MamazOn's points about the legalities too.

And that's why a 'little thing' such as that word in the title needed to be changed. It makes a huge difference.

so right the little things like that do help, just to have someone listen and get it,

Thanks Mumsnet, I think really good progress has been made on this thread. I'm also really pleased it's such a big thread - I have been on "disabilist language" threads before which have petered out after just a few posts, so maybe this issue is finally getting some traction.

I don't 'get' how someone of a different ethnicity would feel when reading " my dh said I run like a nigger" but that does not make me unable to recognise that it is intended as demeaning and unpleasant and that I should join them in protesting about such a phrase

I don't think having no direct experience excludes anyone from the discussion.
But I think peoples experience should carry weight.

And I am not sure it is quite the same as victims setting sentences.
I think it is more like listening to a victim statement to get some context for the 'crime'.

I go back to my all encompassing 'it is difficult' statement of many days ago.

Oh it's all moved on and everyone is hugging now

Fair enough

I hope so sickof. I'm very happy that it didn't just turn into a PC freedom of speech shout over. Very happy with the considered opinions and although there has been difference of opinion, I think the way every one who has contributed has been thoughtful.

Just for HQ to Okay on here a sticky post saying about the changes, the deleted messages, and the thread warnings where needed, and I'm a happy person :)

come on HQ you can do it :)

oh I will be happy if anything changes, we will have to see, I have a feeling it won't though. but I will be happy to be proved wrong.
I just feel that if threads like the catching one are still deemed ok, then the chances are that what we deem offensive and report will be what mn hq deem ok and then nothing will change

:) pag

not sure about hugging just yet believe there are a few bits to tidy up.. And then I'll offer wine and a mn punch on the arm?

Shoesy .. Agree. I DO want to really see this work.

Wine will be great....

It has been quite nice to talk about this stuff without the usual weeping and gnashing of teeth though.