MNHQ .. Can we talk about disability bashing?

[Brownsugarshortbread]

Over the years i have posted on and enjoyed MN.
Sadly there seems to be a growing culture of it being okay to have a go at disabilities, those who claim DLA and those who's children have 'invisable' disabilities such as ADHD and ADD.
The terms 'freak' and 'scrounger' have been batted around and comments from some posters IMO certainly boarder on harrassment and discrimination.

When certain posts or posters have been reported, some have been removed, yet a lot haven't.

And while I agree with free speech, these types of comment or reaction to these comments, are not an education for those bigoted posters. Nor do those whose lives are touched by disability wish to be used to educate those posters.

Disability Harassment

is unwanted behaviour based on disability,
impairment or additional need. Such behaviour may include comments that are patronising or objectionable to the recipient or which creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive environment for people with disabilities. Disability harassment includes inappropriate reference to disability, unwelcome discussion of the impact of disability, refusal to work with and exclusion of people with disabilities from social events or meetings.

surely some of this comes down to how well you know the poster (not wrt the low level goading - more to do with comments that could be misinterpreted)

eg if I ever saw a comment by paggy or lenin or aitch which seemed a bit off, I would think it was more my mis-reading than their intent, and would read and re-read until I understood. because it would be so unlikely for htose posters to want to offend.

but with the site being so huge now, and so many posters (oh, how I miss all those fields ) then it isn't always possible to "know" enough about posters to tell whether they are having a funny five minutes, or have phrased somehtign badly, or are intending to offend (and trying to scrape under the radar in doing so)

MNHQ must have this problem too, in trying to decide when to zap and when to let stand and see whether the "education" given by the rest of MN sinks in...

hide poster is an option, but I'd end up un-hiding so much, just ot find out why the thread was being de-railed, that it wouldn't get much used, I don't htink.

I do agree that there has been some very unpleasant stuff, pag, eg lots of posts about 'professionally offended', etc. With its changed demographic, MN is a bit like a society whose values have broken down. Lots of anomie floating about, lots of nastiness, and in reaction to that a kind of (entirely understandable) rigidifying and defensiveness in the assertion of values, which are therefore at risk of becoming exsanguinated (is that the word?) as a result of being unendorsed in the life of the community as a whole.

Aitch and thready, I think it is actually important that you do say how you feel and that this thread is kept open. As you say, it's an important topic.

Aitch.. Just my feelings but I do think * for certain 'ism' words may help actually.. Not just those linked with disability either.. I think that combined with delibrate inflamitory ( the real nasty stupid stuff) being dealt with would help.

I will say though the uncomfy thinking before you post thing does happen when I see remarks I'd like to challenge.. But think/ know it's likely to be shouted down by 'thought/ SN police", "grow a thicker skin" and .

agree, lenin, that people can be too free with their language on here, and too proud of the "this is MN - it's tough talk or fuck off to NM" stance, which always gets dragged up somewhere along the line when talking about offensive posts/deletions (not quite the same as racist/disablist stuff, but people are quick to be the bluntest (oftne ending up being the rudest), and it is a slippery slope, imo)

but the cunt names debacle has established once and for all that other people's (for which read 'general company') sensitivities are not paramount on here.

yes yes yes re society breaking down, thready. SUCH a good point.

cunt in names gets LOADS of complaints to HQ, len. not that i give a shit about it, but i do think that if we are pursuing the right to use offensive language (assuming complain levels correlate to offence caused) then you can't make the claim that we should speak as if we are in general polite company. we absolutely are not, that has been established. we are on MN.

Agree agree agree.

And can I just point out that it's sensable posters who are posting on this thread, which is good and makes good debate. It's a shame that those who have posted less reasonably on other threads don't come on here and say why they believe it's okay to use 'ism' terms.

And I personally hate 'cunt' but you know that word is a whole different ball game and I don't worry about my sensativities to it.

but i don't think that the spastic thread was deliberate needling, and you do. so who's right?

i mean anything where it's 100% clear to MN gets zapped immediately at the moment, it''s not like they are being derelict in their duties. but there are other moments, such as the freakshow one, where they are forced to act incorrectly by people who are misinterpreting (although not unreasonably, i think) the post. would i have used the word spastic in a thread title? no chance. but then there are lots of things i wouldn't do that MNers consider a right of membership. i think this is terribly tricky and thin end of the wedgy.

when i say i haven't seen them, i did see some right arseholes on the DLA thread, iirc. so i am not for a minute disputing what you say. i just think that for MN, in light of our protected right to offend in so many other ways, this is tricky. i mean, the freakshow post was crass (and the poster massively unapologetic in her response and is in fact still arguing the toss with me on the thread) but i don't think that MN should have deleted it. however i can see that the numbers of people complaining would have made it impossible not to. and it did inspire this whole thread, when it REALLY wasn't 'disability-bashing'.

i think the only thing that HQ can do is zap it if it's a clear wind-up, and leave it if it isn't (at least until it becomes clear).

Actually the spastic thread is quite interesting. I was [shrug] when it was first posted. She seemed to me to be posting "my dh is a childish twat". I was more surprised that she seemed unclear that he was a twat when twat he clearly is
but the subsequent discussion about whether spastic is ok, it's antecedents etc, quickly becomes 'ffs/pc gorn mad/ it's just banter/ professionally offended etc etc.
It is that - the sneering, taunting types who want a fight, want to be the cool kid laughing at the geek and who wants to be ok for acting like that - they turn up and want to assert that not only is spastic but you people should shut the fuck up because you are dull.
And unable to see that then complaining about cunt is massively ironic (I always love that).
then it becomes cliques and you lot.
And any minute someone will start on me and probably my son. Again.

It's not the words. It is the tone, the intent.

Go on . Let me ban wankers

@LeninGrad

Yep, I know but that is different, again given the nature of this site and the voice it gives. It's a completely different argument vs the targetted and deliberate needling.

"Targetted and deliberate needling" is actually against our rules - we would definitely warn and ultimately ban someone who was doing this, so please do report it if you see it.

maybe an email should be sent to those people, paggy, reminding them of the core values of MN etc? but lenin would have zapped the thread on the strength of the title alone.

Lenin is hard core though.

What about a "don't be a wanker" email.

oh YES.

Brownsugarshortbread - I guess because MN is supposed to be a free, candid forum (like the local pub, in a way), people sometimes say things that are extreme because it's their unedited thoughts. There are occasional racist/homophobic/xenophobic comments too, I think people don't realise that they are bashing or being prejudiced. All I can suggest is that you point it out and correct those posts if you see them. I don't know that it could be monitored or "policed". But I think MN is a little more - ?feisty ?militant (might be a bit much to say aggressive) on the talk threads than many other forums I know. Funny that, it's not really that "maternal" as one might imagine from the name. That said, even the more feisty posters have useful contributions to make. (also depends on the thread topic too).

Sorry to pick this up again but why did the OP of the 'DP just said I catch like a S######' put it in Relationships?

Because it's about her DP or because she knew how much fuss it would kick up?

She's only been posting as a newbie or under that name for a few months but still...... even as a newbie you'd know about the SN section on here? No?

It was very much 'light the blue touch paper and stand well back' IMO.