Damaging off-topic comments

[mranchovy]

The occasional annoying, irrelevant, off-topic or unhelpful comment is an inevitable feature of internet discussions. However, an increasing number of posts that are actively damaging to the interests of people coming to Mumsnet for help and advice are detracting from the excellent information given in many cases by skilled, qualified and experienced experts in their field.

I ask that Mumsnet should use the discretion witheld in its terms to remove all material posted from the accounts of individuals who repeatedly make such posts, and take steps to prevent any more potentially harmful posts by such individuals.

I am writing this with some regret, partly because I feel some empathy for the individuals who make such posts and wish I could offer them some help that would enable them to participate in online discussion in a more constructive way, and partly because I have an emotional attachment to the concept of free speech. However, in any society that is not an anarchy, freedom must be limited where its exercise impinges on the rights of others. In this case it appears that the interests of many people, over a considerable amount of time have been and are continuing to be harmed by certain individuals exercising the freedom to post on Mumsnet and I assert that this freedom should be removed from those individuals. If you disagree, I would be interested to know why.

ahh well i reckon i know who it is you are tlkaing about now and have called that poster on her comments a few times.

there are quite a number of us SW's on here who do pile in to point out if advice is innacurate or misleading.

but unless they are claiming to be a certain professioon and issuiong the advice with some sort of fake authority then there really isn't anything to be done. to delete would be to censor

Those of us that post regularly know who to take seriously and who speaks rubbish with apparent authority, newcomers don't.

I am keen not to personalise this, so let's consider an hypothetical conversation:

OP: My daughter has been having some problems at school and now the school have brought in an Educational Psychologist who has said that my daughter needs to be assesed by something called Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services. I've never posted on Mumsnet or anywhere else before but I've got nowhere else to go and I'm terrified about what is wrong with my little girl and what is going to happen.

SympatheticPoster: I'm really sorry to hear about this OP, I went through something similar with my DD a couple of years ago. There are a number of places you can turn to for support etc. etc.

KnowledgeablePoster: I am an Ed. Pshych. and I know how distressing this must be for you, but I have seen many children go through similar hard times and end up in a much better place than they started in. It is important that you talk to your daughter and find out.. etc. etc.

AxeGrinder: Don't go near CAMHS, they will really screw you up.

ShockedFollower: Don't listen to AxeGrinder, he always says rubbish like that.

... continued for another 12 posts...

OP: comes back to read responses and runs away even more confused and distressed, noone is able or willing to help her, they just want to slag each other off. And it seems that CAMHS is something to be scared of as they obviously gave AxeGrinder some problems.

.

Is this really what the Mumsnet and the overwhelming majority of its users want?

to delete would be to censor

Yes it would. Do you disagree with the reasons I gave that sometimes censorship is the least worst course of action?

The thing is MrAnchovy, AxeGrinder may be a parent who has been told that perhaps her/his parenting is the cause of her little darlings problems - that would be a good reason to have something against CAMHS and as they often are quite honest, rightly so, although in a diplomatic way, they can put peoples backs up.

Think is can;t stop people posting their opinions and if they feel that they do have an issue with a certain professional group of people it is up to the OP to actually filter out the shit form what the ther posters who post their credentials have to say.

posters on the SEN board aren't necessarily looking for a professional's opinion - often they want to know about the experiences of other parents who have been through a similar situation.

But then do you delete every poster who says that formula feedding is ok, or not to call the police if you are raped, or not to teach your child to swim because swimmers are more likely to drown than non-swimmers?

I would rather posters made up their own minds. MN is good on the whole for advice but not everyone gets it right all the time. You have to give those asking questions some credit.

is johnhemming back then? Or is he posting under a different name since he's presumably part of the coalition government so can't exactly be seen to be posting about the evil ss any more...

Don'tknow why I put the extra "d" in feeding.

Oh is this about johnhemming?

fwiw I think a lot of dangerous advice is given on mn not just about ss but about lots of other things. I am often quite when I see posters for instance telling a bf mum that she shouldn't be giving formula even when baby isn't gaining weight/that it's ok to use medication when bf even when medical advice claims you shouldn't/that it's ok to co-sleep even though that goes against all sids advice... and so on.

I think it's quite scary that people take the advice of unqualified people on the internet over that of their mw/hv/gp..

sadly we can't just get MNHQ to delete the advice we think is rubbish. however tempting it may be.

As a general rule, maybe not, but there must be exceptions.

If you were to suggest that I should slit my wrists and sit in a corner until I bleed to death, I am sure that that post would be deleted. If you consistently made such posts, I would expect you to be banned and all your posts deleted.

It is a matter of degree and the 'least worst' option. On balance, which does the more harm to the greater number of individuals: leaving many hundreds of inappropriate posts on the forum and allowing them to continue to be made or removing and preventing them?

Let's not get too hung up about the specific example of SEN and problems with SS, my point is that anyone who consistently posts off-topic or unhelpful comments should be treated in the same way as anyone who consistently posts abusive, racist, threatening etc. posts would be, namely they should be banned and all their posts should be deleted.

Isn't that why MN have a disclaimer though?
such posts are few and limited to a couple of posters only who are regularly lambasted

his thread is a bit fishy

I thought so

AF

hiya belle

happy xmas

now...what is your opinion on the Leo DiCaprio asleep/awake dilemma ?

such posts are few and limited to a couple of posters only who are regularly lambasted

Actually they number more than a few, in some topics there can be such posts at least once on the majority of threads over a reasonable period of time.

And the lambasting is part of the problem - it detracts from the good advice as much as the off-topic posts do.

Do you think that Mumsnet is a better place with these comments and their responses than it would be without them?

asleep

Yes - sometimes it helps to thrash things out
We aren't stupid - we can see for ourselves if posters have 'ishoos'

fantus no way!

I assumed Mranchovy was anchovy's DH... not the case then?

i don't think it needs a "least bad" acton though.

this is a public forum that invites the contirbutions of all. both the professionals and laymen, the degree educated and the left school at 15's.

it is precisely that mix that makes it the site that it is.

Newcomers to the site may well be overwhelmed by the breadth of "advice" they recieve but they should not be treated as stupid. they should be afforded assumtpion that they are intelligent to know that there will be some people who have had a bad experience.

but also that those whohave had a bad experience are just as entitled to offer advice as you or i.
their experiences are just as valid and indeed worthy of consideration.

When i was discussing medication for my Ds i wanted the good AND the bad stories. i wanted to know all the side effects, the pitfalls and just how bad ut might go

I think with any scenario people want all the advice. if all they get is the professional opinion then what is the point of posting on mumsnet? they could just wait for the appointment and hear it from their own gp/hv/sw etc

To answer op's question, what QueenGigantaur said. If there is one dissenter amongst 20 posts to the contrary on any given subject it is up to the reader's discretion to balance this with the other views.

And the truth is that some people do have bad experiences - should they not be allowed to share their experiences with others?

And corny - yep, after much thought (and reading another thread ) I am pretty sure he is asleep