Damaging off-topic comments

[mranchovy]

The occasional annoying, irrelevant, off-topic or unhelpful comment is an inevitable feature of internet discussions. However, an increasing number of posts that are actively damaging to the interests of people coming to Mumsnet for help and advice are detracting from the excellent information given in many cases by skilled, qualified and experienced experts in their field.

I ask that Mumsnet should use the discretion witheld in its terms to remove all material posted from the accounts of individuals who repeatedly make such posts, and take steps to prevent any more potentially harmful posts by such individuals.

I am writing this with some regret, partly because I feel some empathy for the individuals who make such posts and wish I could offer them some help that would enable them to participate in online discussion in a more constructive way, and partly because I have an emotional attachment to the concept of free speech. However, in any society that is not an anarchy, freedom must be limited where its exercise impinges on the rights of others. In this case it appears that the interests of many people, over a considerable amount of time have been and are continuing to be harmed by certain individuals exercising the freedom to post on Mumsnet and I assert that this freedom should be removed from those individuals. If you disagree, I would be interested to know why.

[AnyFuckerForAMincePie]

I don't think MN are going to jump to and answer your questions, mra

no matter how bossily you present them

I think they have better things to do, and rightly so

if you don't like what you see on MN...you know the solution

[mranchovy]

So, MNHQ, do you want to express your views on this or do you think that those that have posted here have adequately expressed the arguments in favour of retaining the offending material?

[mranchovy]

OnthefirsdayofMrsDeVere I am not advocating constant moderation by a team of experts, I am stating that I believe that it would be better if all the posts by an individual who consistently posts inapproriately were removed and that individual's freedom to make further inappropriate posts were restricted.

And I agree that Mumsnet is not the place to seek legal or other professional advice. But I believe that certain topics should be places that provide support and compassion, and I think that this objective would be better satisified if those who consistently do otherwise were removed.

[thumbplumpuddingwitch]

MNHQ have been known to moderate, remove and ban certain posters who have been outed as trolls - the type of troll that actively seeks to derail a thread or to offer contrary advice that could be damaging. One recent example was a man who frequented the Relationships boards, who purported to be putting the man's side of things but was generally found to be attacking the OP and effectively blaming her for the man's behaviours.
He was banned after many complaints.

I think you have a point, OP, but as others have said, Report the posts and other people will also say "This is a troll" or "You are talking crap" quite quickly, so the shit advice is usually left on its own with no support.

There was a thread about alcoholism recently with one poster giving dissenting views - that poster was jumped on from a great height with hobnailed boots.

But I agree that it can be dangerous for some vulnerable people to read poor advice - sometimes people will latch onto the 1 bad report among 100s of good ones, because it chimes with their own fears - and then the 100s of good ones might as well not have bothered, because the 1 bad one will be the one that "matters".

So - Report!

[OnthefirsdayofMrsDeVere]

I agree there is a load of rubbish and damaging 'advice' on that thread. But if it was on Netmums none of it would be removed and you already know how heavily modded they are.

The only things that would be removed if someone who disagreed with the 'dont tell ss anything they will steal your children' said 'dont be stupid dont you realise how dangerous that advice is?'

THAT would be removed because they called someone stupid.

Its so much simpler to remove rude words mean things. How do you moderate 'advice'. Unless you had a team of mods from SS and advocacy services, a judge, a policeperson etc. And that would be just for the SS threads.

I do understand your concern re crap advice but this is the internet. Its is awash with people saying stopid things.

If people really need proper, legal advice they have to use their laptop to find Family Rights Group, Womens Aid, Refuge and all the other thousands of organisations quailified to help.

[mranchovy]

What an excellent cross-section of Mumsnet - the good, the bad and the ugly.

catinthehat2 and ChippingIn, insults and putting words into others mouths are the communication tools of an immature bully so it is no surprise that you use this style to defend immature bullying by others. I particularly like "you are powerless and irrelevant". Like I said up top, I've got my security blanket with me.

QueenGigantaurofMnet, having looked at a few of the threads you have posted on I think that your views on this subject carry significant weight. Perhaps you express the reasoned majority view in support of the way things currently work, but I still think that this is insufficiently protective of vulnerable minorities.

Custartdo :P - I had hair once, lots of it

OnthefirsdayofMrsDeVere, I wouldn't want the extent of moderation used on Netmums here either, but there has to be some - there are posters that are regularly moderated for racist and homophobic posts for instance. So yes, it is a question of where you draw the line. I draw it somewhere short of and this. The OP on that thread has not been back.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

I loved Python. However it was the collaborations what made it. Cleese and Chapman were great together. But Cleese on his own? He just seemed to think that he could coast on his previous rep. and not bother doing anything innovative or even funny.

[Tortington]

nah he was just shit
monty python = overrated shit

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Oh right, I was wondering what this thread was about. Now I know.

John Cleese, well of course his Monty Python stuff is well documented, but I loved his contribution in TWTWTW. Genius. He really lost it when he went to America. Was soooo disappointed in A Fish Called Wanda. He had genius, but then he turned into a whore.

[OnthefirsdayofMrsDeVere]

Netmums is heavily moderated.

If someone goes 'off topic' their posts are deleted. WTF? Its an internet forum not a bloody coroners inquest.
If you are deemed to give medical advice you are deleted unless you are telling someone they should give weetabix to a 6 week old because 'you know best cos you r his mommy'

Threads are foever being pulled and edited in a weird, random way. It is tedious and patronizing.

I really do not think this is necessary on MNs. If someone gives spurious advice someone with credentials is likely to come along and give better information.

It is also ok (if sometimes distracting) for people with awful experiences of SS, NHS, LEAs to come along and have a rant. It may confuse the issue for a while but things tend to get back on track after a while.
MNs is HUGE its like standing in Euston station and asking for advice through a megaphone. Some of it will be bollocks, some will be meh and some will be priceless.

[ChippingIn]

I am also happy with a relatively unmoderated site, I just think a little more moderation is needed in certain cases

When YOU don't like what someone is saying you mean.



There is a system in place already to deal with any problems, if you have a problem use it. I am sure after 18 months here you are fully aware of what that is, but just incase you aren't there is, along the line with the poster name, a little bit that says 'report post' all you have to do is click on it and tell MN why you are reporting it. It's simple, it works and it doesn't involve MNHQ employing another 10 staff to read each and everything posted.

[Tortington]

urban dictionary definition psml @ hirsute

[Tortington]

anyone who likes john cleese is a deffo loon

you just sealed your own fate there manchovy

[KatieMiddleton]

I know who you mean. And WestVirgina's posts are strange because they don't seem to interact with the thread. They're just a series of attacks on social services. It's almost as if they're automated instead of being a real person.

However the odd troll does not detract from the good MN does. And there is no need for extra censorship. The "see something off - report it" process works fine. Just report the posts and highlight the ridiculous on the threads.

[catinthehat2]

"Agree or disagree?"

You are coming across as a bit of an idiot TBH. Or possibly a traffic warden manque.

"Posters who consistently make posts that should be removed should be prevented from making future posts."

"Posters who consistently make posts that should be removed should have all their posts removed."

AHHHHH! Got it!
YOu want to be a MODERATOR! This is a pitch so you get to keep everyone in line.

[QueenGigantaurofMnet]

but where do you draw the line as to what is a sensetive subject?

miscarriage? infertility? rape? abuse? infidelity? disability?

i think that most of Mn would fall under the "senstive" unbrella at one stage or another.

as has been said, in most cases a particulrarly unhlepfull post will be either ignored or challenged. a newcomer would see that the "advice" given is not to be taken purely by the repsonses from the majority of other posters.

[catinthehat2]

This is pompous mealy mouthed crap isn't it?

Underneath all the dreadful sub-legal terminology, all you are saying is :

"Miss, Miss, someone's said something I disagree with. Expel them from the school immediately"

Take it up with the site owners if you have a specific problem with a specific poster.

Accept that apart from that you are powerless and irrelevant.

And do try not to push that embarassing line about your "emotional" attachment to free speech EXCEPT (it seems where you disagree wuth the content of that speech. Unless you really really want to be laughed at.

[mranchovy]

@ChippingIn

No one died and made you God.

I neither assert nor want any authority or responsibility for what happens on Mumsnet. It is Mumsnet that have that responsibility, and I want them to use it.

everyone else here is happy with a relatively unmoderated site.

I am also happy with a relatively unmoderated site, I just think a little more moderation is needed in certain cases.

With respect, I raised this here partly to garner others opinions rather than make an assumption about what everybody is happy with.

[mranchovy]

Yea, that's the problem with cut and paste!

Misspelled too: withheld.

Perhaps its time for a bit of a recap/restatement of my argument anyway:

I believe:

Some posts should be removed from Mumsnet (for instance racist abuse).

Posters who consistently make posts that should be removed should be prevented from making future posts.

Posters who consistently make posts that should be removed should have all their posts removed.

Posts in response to people asking for help or advice that do not offer help or genuine advice (and by that I mean advice that is given with the sole purpose of informing the OP or others in a similar situation) should be removed from Mumsnet. This is particularly the case where sensitive topics are involved - a miscarriage is a different situation from a dispute over a telephone bill.

Agree or disagree?

[QueenGigantaurofMnet]

If the poster is trolling then they will/do.

if a poster is merely posting things you don't happen to agree with then unfortunately they have no option but to let those posts stand. it is not a members area where you need to prove professional qualification before you post. thankfully

[ChippingIn]

No one died and made you God. Email MNHQ if you have problem with the way they run their site - everyone else here is happy with a relatively unmoderated site.

[scurryfunge]

That is a bloody long sentence,manchovy.

[mranchovy]

I didn't start this thread to slag anybody off, I started this thread to raise the argument that Mumsnet should use the discretion witheld in its terms to remove all material posted from the accounts of individuals who repeatedly make [posts that are actively damaging to the interests of people coming to Mumsnet for help and advice], and take steps to prevent any more potentially harmful posts by such individuals.

[QueenGigantaurofMnet]

so it is a particular poster that you have been prompted by?

theni i think youneed to address your concerns to them and/or HQ.