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Original poster

Forward facing car seats in front seat of car ?

31 replies

Cathy1 · 20/12/2002 10:22

Hi - I have a Britax Eclipse and it is great. I sometimes do 2 or 3 hour journeys on my own with dd and it's a pain to have her in the back seat (OK if she sleeps but not so OK if she is awake and keeps dropping her toys). What I want to know (as I can't find any reference to it in the car seat instructions) is can you put a forward facing car seat in the front passenger seat of a car which has an airbag ?

OP posts:
RosieT · 20/12/2002 10:45

Hi Cathy1. According to RoSPA (Royal Soc for prevention of accidents) it's perfectly legal to have forward-facing car seats on the front seat, but they do advise making sure they're well back on their runners ? in other words, pushed as far back as the seat can possibly go for safety and to make sure your child is well out of the airbag deployment zone. And make sure it's really properly fitted, too.
I know it's a pain having your child in the back (and I only have a 2-door car), but I always do wherever possible as statistics show that it is in fact much safer. Something like 87% of serious car injuries happen to people travelling in the front seats of cars, so your child may be up to nine times safer in the back of the car. My next door neighbour has a special mirror on her dashboard so she can keep an eye on her dd in the back ? must ask her where she got it from. Rospa have quite a good website with lots of downloadable factsheets ? www.rospa.co.uk (sorry, can't do links! ) or call them on 0121 248 2000).

Sorry to sound so much like school monitor, folks!

Scatterbrain · 20/12/2002 10:55

I have my dd in the front for exactly the same reasons - also she likes to hold my hand sometimes - Ahhhhh !!!

I did have the airbag disabled first though - as I read that the pressure from the airbag if it went off was enough to kill a little one and it says you should on the car-seat - I've got a Maxi Cosi priori and a Golf and it works really well.

I also read that the stats on accidents and front seat passengers were misleading. Many many accidents are shunts from the rear and many are sideways on. I thought I'd read that the safest place for the baby seat was the middle of the rear seat - but my car has a hump in the middle so that's no good for me.

HTH

RosieT · 20/12/2002 11:03

Yes, Scatterbrain, I'm sure there must be something in the fact that the reason most injuries are in front-seat passengers is because that's where most people sit ? much more 1 or 2 person journeys going on. Also it's the head-on collisions that do the most damage. Still, I'm Mrs, Safety, me ? I read that the safest position for a child seat is the place behind the passenger seat (as so many cars just have those flimsy lap-belts in the middle). I hate road travel ? seem to be so many bad drivers around.

ellasmum · 20/12/2002 13:59

On the subject of front facing car seats, at what age/weight should I be moving DD out of her first stage carseat?? I seem to remember it was 9 months or 20lbs - she is nearly 9 months old but only 17lbs and a bit.

She seems to be getting a bit squashed and uncomfortable in the seat she has now. Any views??

Chinchilla · 20/12/2002 14:33

I believe that they must also be able to sit unaided for at least 20 minutes before going into the next car seat. I think that the weight thing is as important as the age thing, so I would wait until 9 kgs as they all say. My old baby seat went up to 10kgs, so there was an overlap. My ds did seem a bit squashed at times, but ultimately it is safer that way than in a car seat that is too big for them.

suedonim · 20/12/2002 18:05

Ellasmum, it's the weight that counts, not the age. If the baby isn't heavy enough for the seat it may not work properly in an accident. If you do a search on "child car seats" it should bring up lots of info. HTH.

bayleaf · 20/12/2002 21:03

Sympathy Ellasmum ! - I remember desperately feeding dd high cal food to try and fatten her up as she has always been skinny and was really too big for the first seat but not heavy enough for the big one - then she got a tunny bug and lost a load of weight just as I thought we were nearly there! I could have cried!!!
I put her in in the end when she was fractionally under the weight ( a few oz) on the grounds that they must err on the safe side with the weight they give.

AliH · 20/12/2002 22:46

Cathy 1 - you definately must not put a child seat of any description in the front of a car with an air bag. They deploy at over 200 mph and would kill a child.

Dh of a friend is an accident investigator for the police, and is happy to have their dd in the front of the car (no airbag), so that's good enough for me. He says that there are rules (cannot remember the exact figures he quoted) about how many centimetres away from the dashboard a person should be - I guess this agrees with RoSPA re the pushing the seat far back.

SueW · 21/12/2002 06:50

It's my understanding that a rear facing carseat should never be used in the front of a car with airbag but that forward facing can be used under the circumstances required i.e. seat pushed as far back as possible.

My car's manual (VW Golf) says no under-12s or under 5' high people in the front seat.

Dixie · 21/12/2002 13:13

not alot to add except that ther was a big thing on the tv a few months back on all sorts of shows, Richard&Judy, This Mornig & watchdog about that NO CAR SEAT whichever type should be used in the front if there is a passenger airbag....the demonstartions with the dummies they showed were horrific.

LIZS · 23/12/2002 20:04

ellasmum,

I sympathise with your dilemma. Our dd has only just gone into her forward facing car seat - at 15 months! She too looked squashed but I think she has only now reached the minimum weight for it.

However I did look back at past posts regarding car seat safety and kept thinking how the worst if rear facing would be to break her legs whilst forward facing could kill her if the seat did not anchor properly on impact. A macabre thought whichever but I preferred a more cautious approach. Also please don't think that your dd is missing out just because her contempories have switched around. It really did n't seem to bother our dd and we have done some long journeys with her.

hth

LizS

MalmoMum · 24/12/2002 23:21

Ds1 is nearing 2 and a half years. He is now in the next size of car seat in the back seat and facing backward.

In Norway it is recommended that your child faces backward until they are 4 years old at least. Facing forward before then is for your own convenience not their safety.

Please could someone direct me towards the documentation for children breaking their legs stuff. It really sounds like an Old Wives Tale to me (Prove Me Wrong!).

LizC · 27/12/2002 12:20

Hi Cathy1 - as AliH says you must NEVER EVER put any kind of childseat into the front seat of a car with a passenger airbag. We've got a Britax Eclipse and it does stress this in the instructions - on ours there's also a sewn on patch on the side of the seat (talks about the fact that you need a diagonal belt), and if you read the text of this it also states that it mustn't be used in the front seat with an airbag. You can disable airbags sometimes and we thought about doing this but just didnt feel happy that we could be absolutely sure that it had worked

Tissy · 27/12/2002 12:53

MalmoMum, where does a 4 year old put his/ her legs if the seat is rear-facing? Do they have different seats in Norway, or different anchoring?

ellasmum · 30/12/2002 19:05

Thanks for your replies - was going to go and buy a new seat on Friday but will now wait till DD reaches the correct weight.

Original poster
Cathy1 · 02/01/2003 11:52

Hi LizC, funny that - on our Eclipse instructions it says nothing about having to be in the back seat - I checked thoroughly before I posted this message. Also - there are a set of instructions in the manual for setting up the car seat with a lap belt. Maybe its a different version of the eclipse ?
I've decided to leave her in the back anyhow.
Thans everyone.

OP posts:
Claireandrich · 04/01/2003 21:30

As far as I know you can put a forward facing seat in the front seat if it has an airbag so long as the seat is far back - so just backing up what others have said. Personally I don't think I will. DD is due to have her second stage car in the next month or so, when she is 9Kgs. The new car (due soon - yeah!) is a convertible with just front doors but I will still put her in the back. I'm always wary about the airbag going off and hitting her. My brother had a car accident recently and the airbag went off. Although he wasn't injured at all his coat has a big burn mark where the sirbag hit it!

SueW - I have a Golf at the moment too. I didn't know you should be 5 foot to go in the front. I am just 5 foot. Am I okay to drive? LOL!!!

MalmoMum · 05/01/2003 22:19

Tissy, I think they just bend their legs up around them. I'll try and look at some pictures to see if I can work it out.

I used to work for an all party Parliamentary group campaigning for road and transport safety and, from what I can remember, it's what happens to the head when an impact occurs that determines the severity of injuries. I think we can tilt the seat that we have kept backward facing.

I used to worry that I was always the one being really safety obsessed between my husband and me. I had got the stage that I was willing to let him do what he wanted on the car seat and then he saw a video on Norwegian tv about what happen to children's heads upon impact and now there is no dispute. Dh is going to have that child rear facing until he gets his majority or married.

Temptress · 05/01/2003 22:22

Hi Cathy. I know that you definitely arent allowed to have a babies car seat in the front seat of the car if the airbag is still fitted and operational. I think children have to be about 11 or over before you can put them in a seat that has an airbag.

MalmoMum · 05/01/2003 22:32

Duh, just remembered your oringinal question Cathy. Theoretically, if you put the front seat in the most far back position then that mimimizes the potential ill effects of an airbag versus what it can help with.

Rear facing child seats in the front are in danger of being squished back ward by the airbag resulting in suffocating a child.

However,it is always safer to have your child in the back of the car rather than the front. Can you plan your journeys in a different way now that you have a child? At the end of the day, putting them in the front is more for your convinence than for their safety. Maybe your driving attitude will be much better if you are more relaxed about your child if you can see them.

However, (again), from the studies that I can remember seeing, making yourself more relaxed behind the wheel tends to make you speed and tend toward other bad driving techniques so you might be better kept on your toes.

I think that RoSPA and the Child Accident Prevention Trust may be able to advise you further. It's kinda up to you.

SoupDragon · 06/01/2003 07:41

I think rear facing seats are a definite no, forward facing are OK provided your vehicle manufacturer confirms it is safe. I think our Laguna (2001) manual says the seat must be as far back as it will go.

There's a PDF file from the UK government which prints as a pocket guide here which explains it. I believe that children should be rear facing until 1, something to do with the effect of the force of the harness on an undeveloped pelvis during a crash. I can't remember where I read this though.

LizC · 06/01/2003 10:34

Hi Cathy1 (sorry, haven't logged on for a while to reply) - my eclipse is new, just bought it 2 weeks ago, so could have updated instructions (it is a slightly updated version where the harness can be used up to 6 yrs old, where the old version made you swap from harness to seatbelt at age 4). It doesn't specifically say it has to be in the back, just has warnings that it mustn't be used in the front if car has passenger airbag.

Soupdragon - it's a bit worrying to think that children should be rear facing until 1 year old. My dd has just gone forward facing at 8 1/2 months, as she was already 22lbs! I know my health visitor did advise me that I should keep her rear facing as long as poss as it's safer (I asked her advice at 6 months as harness was already getting a bit tight and feet sticking over edge). I don't think I'd be able to still do the harness up on my rock-a-tot from birth seat though for much longer and she is well into the weight range now for forward facing!

Oh all these dilemmas...!

Alibubbles · 07/01/2003 10:42

I have a real problem. I have four under 6 on a school run, the baby has just grown out of her first stage seat and has until now been in the front, rear facing in a Mercedes seat that has a transponder that turns off the air bag automatically- it senses it and a light comes on the dash dsaying it is off.

Mercedes now no longer make a seat to go in the front that will do that, so I have four children but can only strap three of them in safely and legally.

I an trying everywhere to see if a Mercedes dealer has one 'lying around'. It is amazing that I can pay all that money for a car ( £36k) and no one seems to be qualified or intelligent enough to give advice on how I should nmake sure my children ( or the children I look after) are safe!

GillW · 07/01/2003 14:33

Alibubbles - does your car have a switch to turn off the front airbags? Obviously not quite as convenient as it being automatic but better than nothing. My new one (which is costing a fraction of yours!) has this feature, so I'd be surprised if a Merc didn't. Or failing that, check (or get the garage to check) the electrics diagram - it may be as simple as removing a fuse to disable the passenger side bag.

SoupDragon · 07/01/2003 14:37

LizC, My DSs 2nd stage carseat was suitable for both rear and forward facing.

I have to confess that both DSs went into it forward facing at 7 months though as they were both overweight for the 1st stage seat by then. With DS1 there was no "rear facing til 1" recommendation and with DS2 sheer laziness meant I didn't take the seat out and turn it round when we switched DS1 into a high backed booster.