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Which camcorder to buy dp for Christmas? Help, I know NOTHING about them!

27 replies

WideWebWitch · 13/11/2004 09:39

Any ideas? I would like to buy him something small and sleek that he can film the children with. Must be online. Do I need lots of memory? What does anyone who knows about these things think of this one? Should I get it, with extra memory? I am a complete novice and will buy what you tell me to buy! TIA to anyone who can help.

OP posts:
ja9 · 13/11/2004 11:45

Don't buy this one! It's not a proper camcorder and I think DH would be disappointed. I've just bought a camcorder....

Best - here

It costs £450

This is a great price for a brilliant camcorder that will still be brilliant in 3 years.

I would advise against anything too small - most of the newest ones are tiny - they have smaller lenses and are very fiddely to use.

I have a spare Sony camcorder (dcr-trv15e) to sell. I bought two being sold together on ebay and am now looking to sell one of them. Although a couple of years old, this was a market leader and a very expensive camcorder in it's day. Sony has the best lens - which means they produce the best quality video. Feel free to CAT me for furthe advice or, for great advice and reasonable prices (though not as cheap as my SONY would be) call Jessops - they are usually very helpful even if you don't buy from them.

Unfortunately you will get very little for less than £200 - and if you want to spend less than £300 you'll probably have to trawl through ebay or buy second hand from somewhere else (like me!).

Hope some of this helps - let us know how you get on,

Mark - hubby of ja9.

JanH · 13/11/2004 12:54

Which's best buys were 2 Sonys, WWW - not cheap though - DCR PC109E about £650, and DCR HC40ES for about £600.

The cheapest one with quite a good score was the Canon MVX250i, about £300 - "This camcorder is easy to use and offers good image quality. Sound quality and battery life are average."

The Sony DCR-TRV265 is under £300, average performance but described as heavy - 910g. (The other 2 Sonys were under 500g, the Canon under 600g) but that's still tiny compared with the beasts there used to be - nothing like the one in your link though!

Have a look at review centre - loads of models listed, they don't all have reviews but the ones that do have scores out of 10.

Or have a root around pricerunner - some of theirs have professionals' reviews although when I was looking at digital cameras those made me more confused.

Good luck....

tortoiseshell · 13/11/2004 14:47

When we bought ours, we got a digital 8 one, which we're really happy with, but it isn't small. With the small ones you need to be a bit careful that the microphone doesn't pick up the mechanical noise of the camera, which can be quite annoying. We had ours stolen, and then had to replace it, and couldn't find a new one in digital 8 that matched up to the old one, so bought a second hand one.

If you buy a film, you can take lots of film on different cameras in the shop, and then try it out if you know someone with a digital camera on the tv, or probably on your computer. Then you could compare the film quality. I'd offer to help here, but ours wouldn't be compatible.

I've just read the 'online' bit. Could you try some out at Jessops in Cribbs? If you fancy meeting for a coffee sometime, I could come and have a look with you (not that I know anything much about them, but I remember a bit from when we bought one!).

JanH · 13/11/2004 15:42

AOL have got a new comparison shopping page , it might help too.

WideWebWitch · 13/11/2004 16:58

Thank you all. Janh, you are (Wow, that should come out bold, very pleased we've got that now!)the Queen of Internet Shopping! Tortoiseshell, yes, do let's have coffee sometime soon at Cribbs, Ja9, thank you. How much do you want for yours then? I must admit, I didn't know they were quite that expensive but I still think I'd like one for dp, I know it's what he really wants.

OP posts:
lulupop · 13/11/2004 17:15

Sorry to hijack your thread for a moment, WWW, but if Mark, Ja9's DH is still around, could he tell me a few desirable factors in a digital camcorder? I also want to get one, and although I'm reasonably au fait with digital still cameras, I'm not sure what specs I shou;d be looking for on a camcorder.

We have never owned a camcorder in any shape or form, but I want something to capture the kids, so, easy to use, lightweight, but which will produce good enough films to last. Can spent up to £400 (but would rather spend less!), and don't mind buying off ebay.

ja9 · 13/11/2004 20:00

lulupop - dh is out all night. do you want to CAT me and he can email you directly. he's very opinionated on the matter of camcorders, but i think that's because he uses them quite a bit and has done a fair bit of research. but be warned!!

WWW - not sure how much he wants for it, i think he mentioned £300 but not really sure. Again, if you are interested, or just want to find out more, then feel free to CAT me.

WideWebWitch · 13/11/2004 20:44

Thanks ja9, please do ask him to be opinionated on this thread if he wants to! An aside, but why can't they just bloody well call them the 'Cammy plus Camcorder' or something, why do they all have to have numbers and be called things like 'dcr-trv15e'? So hard to remember!

OP posts:
ja9 · 14/11/2004 01:05

OK folks - I'm back - usually I only post on football websites so it's unusual to be so interested in J's favorite site.

I have done HEAPS of research on camcorders. I would say

  • only buy mivi dv camcoders. Digital 8 refers to bigger sized tapes - generally older models. Not many are made in digital 8 format anymore ans the tapes will get harder to get hold of.

To explain a few terms - AV = analogue video. DV= digital video.

You get cameras that you can use to hook up to a computer to edit your videos and add music, effects and things. You can then watch this on your computer or burn it to a cd or dvd (burning to a dvd requires a dvd burner (£50 and some fairly cheap software.) These need to have DV /out - ie you can take digital video out of them into your PC. TO watch it on your TV straight off your camcorder you need AV/out.

You want a camera that has a good lens - sony or newer panasonic ones. Most camcorders have one chip which processes the picture - some expensive ones have 3 chips - these are called 3CCD. You used to have to spend about £900 to get a 3ccd camcorder and these produced "broadcast quality" video pictures. Panasonic have introuced a much cheaper 3ccd one which you could get for around £500 - I think I mentioned the name of it in my earlier post. This would be perfect except the image stabilisers (which stop the camera-shake looking so bad) aren't very good and the lens isn't as good as a sony.

Most new lenses are 1/6th of an inch in size (small) and the small "very handy" (or fidelly) ones are even as small as 1/8th of an inch in size (too small I think) My one is a bit bigger and has a 1/4 inch lens. This means that it lets in more light and therefore performs much better in low light conditions. A lot of camcorders talk about low light and nightlight settings - these are not great - they allow you to see and record things in the dark - but what you get looks like a CCTV image - not nice to watch. You are far more likely to be shooting in a dimly lit room than in total darkness - so it's more important for a camera to perform well in low light than to have special "night vision" settings.

You also need to know what you want it for. I mainly use the camera for baby stuff around the house and wee projects for my work. If I were to take the camcorder on holiday a lot I might be looking for something smaller - which J could put in her handbag. But in my opinion it's not worth having a comcorder if it's very difficult to operate because it's to small and has a small lens so it's not much good in low light.

I like camcorders which let you control the focus or light level if you want - therefore I like the option of maunual focus of manual exposure. On a slightly larger camcorder (like mine) these can be laid out in a way which is easy to use without stoping and looking onto the side of the camera. The smaller ones tend to be far more difficult to find the controls and still hold the camera still.

If you can afford it buy a sony or the new panasonic 3ccd range.

If you can't - try and get a 2nd hand sony - like my one. Jessops have a website which is worth a try - but you need to know the model and phone individual stores to ask for prices. If you have no clue - phone a Jessops store and ask to be put through to their used department - tell them your budget and ask them for the best used sony camcorder in your budget - they will deliver to you as well.

The model numbers are a hastle - but it does mean you can copy it into google and quickly read reviews and see pictures of each camcorder - which is how people like me can get so many opinions.

A few links

The panasonic 3ccd one - under £500!
http:/www.digitaldirectuk.comproducts_moreinfo3/index.asp?product_id=4184

A good sony one - a nice big good quality one - also explains why sony's are so good.
http:/www.unbeatable.comproductscamcordersSonyDigitalssonydcrhc85.asp

A uk price for that one - £608 at the sight below.
http:/www.pricerunner.co.uksound-and-visionvisioncamcorders197829prices

A small sony handbag one - £374
http:/www.pricerunner.co.uksound-and-visionvisioncamcorders193164prices

Mine - a 2 year old equivilent of that £608 sony. I plan to sell it on ebay for £300 but if one of you emails me I will do it for £275.

The prices above are the best online prices I could find - high street prices would be at least £50 more.

Hope this helps. I will be delighted to talk to anyone on the phone or through email. It's good if any of my research can help others as well as me.

Hope your babies are all asleep and bringing you loads of happiness. Hi to all J's friends who are probably laughing at me for finding another place to bore people about camcorders.

God Bless,

Mark

lulupop · 14/11/2004 09:12

Mark - hope you were up at that time of night cos you'd been out on the razzle, and not up with the baby!

Thanks so much for all that info - I'm going to have a look at all those models you've mentioned as soon as I've dressed the kids.

One last thing - what do you think of the camcorders which use those mini DVD things?

WideWebWitch · 14/11/2004 09:38

Mark, thanks, this is brilliant. My dp has a DVD burner so definitely would want one he could do that with (oh, I'm so technical, me!). He is also a bit of a photography/design whizz so would definitely want one that lets him alter things.

So, get this! I think I want one with:

  • DV out so he can burn the stuff to dvd
  • 3CCD, i.e. 3 chips so the image is good quality
  • 1/6th or 1/4 of an inch lens as 1/8 might be too small to get good picture quality.
  • Manual focus and manual exposure, since he does know what he's doing on this (I think)

So, might I want yours then? Sounds like it. Has it got all that stuff? Will go off and look at your links now. No-one's laughing at you, I'm so relieved someone else has done this research so I don't have to and am very grateful. Thanks!

OP posts:
SofiaAmes · 14/11/2004 22:44

I am so excited. I have been planning to by a dv camcorder for many many months now and just can't get my head around all the options. I had decided on one and then they stopped making it and then I got too discouraged to start researching again. Mark, you have put everything sooo clearly, it's a pleasure..you should write instruction manuals.
Do you know anything about how well any of these work with macs and imovie? thanks.

ja9 · 14/11/2004 22:54

lulupop - Jury's out on mini dvds. I'd like to give it a try - could be great but it's pretty untested yet. I'd wait a couple of years. I don't know anyone who's used one and Jessops felt that it'd be better to let this new technology "bed in" first. The video qualityis no better - it's just smaller (you know how I feel about that) and easier to get onto the computer. You're also more likely to damage a dvd by scratching it than ruin a tape.

WWW - you seem to have understood almost everythig I've said. The only bit you got wrong is that my camera isn't 3ccd - neither are any of the sony's under £900. Panasonic are the only ones to do cheaper models with 3ccd and it's a new thing. While 3ccd is good you have to balance that agaionst all the otehr good things about the sonys - carl zeiss lens, well laid out features etc.

Even without 3ccd I'd go for the £600 sony - then the £500 Panasonic, then a used sony like mine.

Jessops would aggree with this I think. Depends how much oney you want and these 3 are all the slightly bigger ones - if you want a tiny in your handbag one then get the other smaller sony i gave you the link for before.

Hope this helps,

Mark

ja9 · 14/11/2004 22:58

I am pretty sure all dv camcorders work with macs - I have used macs (apple macintosh computers incase this is confusing anyone) and imovie (a video editing programme) before in a school and ordinary camcorders were being used.

SofiaAmes · 14/11/2004 23:08

Just wanted to add that your links are missing all their forward slashes (because mumsnet has added them as a way of italicizing) so they don't work. You might want to try posting them again on monday when tech says this will all be worked out.

ja9 · 14/11/2004 23:29

how frustrating - here's a way to see my links

For the panasonic one go to
www.digitaldirectuk.com

Then in the search box at the top of the page type in "panasonic 3ccd" - it'll bring up 2 camcorders - click on the top one.

To see the small handbag sony one go to www.pricerunner.co.uk

Then in the big menu in the middle click on "sound and vision" then in the third line of the menu on the next page click on "camcorders" then under popular brands click "sony"

A list will appear and the one good small handbag one is the 8th from the bottom.
Sony DCR-HC30

To find the £608 brillinat sony one follow the same route to the sony camcorders on the pricerunner website but go onto page 2 and the good one is the 12th model on page 2.
Sony DCR-HC85

KangaMummy · 16/11/2004 20:30

Just seen advert on TV for 20% off digital camcorders in ARGOS

tassis · 17/11/2004 21:54

Hey Mark
In case you thought no one was laughing at you, I thought you should know that I am!!
Big Sis

Waswondering · 18/11/2004 15:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JanH · 18/11/2004 23:21

20% off at Argos until 23/11.

ja9 · 21/11/2004 08:53

Happy camcorder shopping everyone!!

MArk has sold his.

ta ra for now!

WideWebWitch · 21/11/2004 09:03

Mark, quick, of those Argos ones which should I get? Keener to spend 300 odd than 600 odd.

OP posts:
WideWebWitch · 21/11/2004 09:04

If you're there and have time and everything, sorry, just realised that sounded rude, didn't mean to!

OP posts:
tamum · 21/11/2004 09:44

Hello www! I realise I'm not Mark, but I have had a couple of camcorders now so I'll just butt in with my admittedly inferior knowledge. I have recently got a Sony DVD camcorder (where you record directly on to DVDs) having had a Sony Mini-DV that has had endless problems with battery recharging (well documented on the net by other users). The DVD ones tend to get reviews saying the picture quality is not perfect but I would guess these comments are mainly from semi-professionals, the quality looks great to me. If your dh likes fiddling about with stuff these might really appeal to him. The only one in the Argos list is the DVD91E which is probably not ideal as you can't connect that one to the PC. The next one up, the 101E, you can (that's the one I got). The 91E is still way more expensive at Argos than Amazon even with the 20% off. It's £418 at Amazon, and the 101E is £460. That's the cheapest I found. The menu button is a bit small and fiddly but other than that I really like it. The DVD-R and DVD-RWs are more expensive than mini-DV tapes though.

jabberwocky · 21/11/2004 10:16

Just wanted to say thank you to www for starting this thread and big thanks to Mark for all of the great information. DH and I have been talking about getting a camcorder for Christmas but were completely overwhelmed by the choices.