Nissan Leaf - family of four? Or other family EV?

[Marahute]

Hi

Just wondering if anyone has any experience of the Nissan Leaf as a car for a family of four? We have DC who are 4 (but still in a rear facing car seat) 1 year old. So we are still in the "pram phase" so need a boot that can fit one in, even if it's only an umbrella fold stroller.

We're keen to get an electric vehicle to replace on of our diesel cars (in an ideal world both but we can't afford that right now). I had suggested the MG ZS EV as it's marketed as a family car and at the lower end of the EV price scale for a larger vehicle. My husband isn't keen as apparently reviews are poor (which is fair enough) so now we're looking if we could stretch to the additional cost of the Leaf.

Or can anyone else suggest another family EV that we may want to consider? Would also consider a hybrid/low emission vehicle perhaps if more affordable (and possibly more readily available in nearly new condition)...

We're not having any more DC but may be getting a dog in a few years once both DC are at school, if our lifestyle is suitable by then.

Thanks so much Mumsnetters!

Leafs are shit and not that big, especially if you want to get a dog later.

I'd question why you need an EV in the first place when they have crap range, cost more to buy, shelf life choked unrecyclable batteries etc.

And with more weight in that car as your kids grow up, the more straining the Leaf would have to do. Battery degradation will be sharper and faster.

Buy a non-EV.

@FartingInTheFence that's an interesting POV, thank you.

We're keen on an EV predominantly for environmental reasons I suppose? One of us would use it daily for work commute and we would use it locally for shorter journeys as a family. Our other car would be used for any significantly longer journeys. But you are right about the cost. Although I have never bought a brand new car of any type before!

I think more research will be required...

Sorry, but one more EV on the road is not going to save the planet.

The cost alone is eye watering. Even hybrids are a rip off.

I say screw the EV and get a car that fits your capacity requirements, not something to appease the tree-huggers that ends up costing YOU money.

EVs are more expensive to buy, but the running costs are much lower. Range may be an issue, but it's becoming less of an issue on modern EVs and if you have a diesel and an EV, you can always use the diesel for journeys that require the extra range.

The Leaf is more prone to battery issues than other EVs as they don't have active cooling. I would pick something else. Reviews on the MG are a bit mixed. It's relatively cheap and that seems to show through in places, but for the money, it seems to be pretty good.

If you are buying new you could look at the Zoe, the Kia Soul EV, Kia e-Niro, VW ID3, Peugeot e-2008 and Hyundai Kona. You may find that availability is an issue.

Don’t forget that EV’s are more expensive to insure plus you need to factor in getting the charging point installed (£500-£1000).
Agree that the Zoe’s are great if you go fish that route though. If I had the spare cash that’s what would get my money.

Considering the OP wants a sizeable motor, a Zoe isnt going to cut it.

Plus its French - thereby, shit.

No idea what compels people to buy French cars. Utter shite from the ground up.

@FartingInTheFence right, we're going to fall out in a minute. My first, much beloved, car was a Peugeot 205. A finer car I have yet to find!

Thank you other posters for the suggestions. I shall add these to my list. DH has floated a Corolla Hybrid as an option, they appear to come as an estate optionwhich would be reasonable size-wise for us. I currently drive a Skoda Fabia estate which is a perfectly reasonable size for us. I am not desperate for an SUV, but don't want a tiny hatchback IYSWIM?

The Leaf is not more prone to battery issues. If you rapid charge multiple times in a row on regular long journeys, maybe.

But for average family driving/commuting is no worse than any other. I've not heard of anyone with battery degradation at all.

I can fit our family of 5 in my Leaf, I don't take it on holiday though as mine is only a 24kw battery. The boot is a reasonable size.

If I replace it I'd look at a new Leaf and the e-Nero, Soul and Kona. (Or a Tesla with unlimited money )

In the EV groups I'm in, people seem to like the MG for the money.

Any EV or Hybrid commands a stupid premium.

Get a petrol SUV and save yourself money. Buy Japanese or Korean - and steer clear of French influenced shit like Nissan.

There's no real evidence that EVs are more expensive to insure, but definitely check the insurance costs and factor them in, along with a charging point. Also factor in the lower maintenance and reduced fuel costs. I couldn't say whether it will turn out to be cheaper overall.

VW reckon that in 5 years time the cost of EVs will be the same as a comparable combustion engine, at which point the running costs make it the obvious choice for a new car buyer with somewhere to install a charge point, but we aren't there yet.

If you aren't too far from Milton Keynes spend some time at the EV experience centre before making a decision.

and I probably should mention availability as an issue. I think Kia and Hyundai can't source enough batteries to meet demand and you may find that you can't buy one this year. I'm not sure when the VW ID3 and the Peugeot E208/2008 will start deliveries.

VW?

LOL

The same VW that lied about its emissions on diesel cars?

I wouldnt touch any of their fucking overpriced, unreliable shite with a shitty stick either. Anything VW says/claims is bullshit.

What kind of driving do you do? EVs make a lot of sense for specific journey profiles, and none at all for others.

My other concern would be the cobalt thing. The (enormous) batteries for electric cars contain a lot of cobalt. Cobalt is controversial; often considered a conflict material, and largely mined in the DRC. There is widespread evidence of children as young as four being used to literally scrape it out of the ground. This is worth a read (long, but mentions the cobalt thing). Of course, anything with a lithium-ion battery has some cobalt in it, including the laptop I'm typing this on right now. No one's hands are completely clean. But the amount required for EVs is considerable, because of the size of the batteries.

I think people have jumped onto the EV bandwagon sometimes without giving enough consideration and research to whether they're actually a) suitable for their needs and b) a good idea more broadly. Personally, I'm holding off on an electric car until they've found a replacement for cobalt in the batteries.

I would just note that cobalt is also used to remove sulphur from petrol and diesel fuels, so you are almost as responsible for cobalt mining with a combustion engine.

Wow, have to laugh at the hysterical and ill-informed opinions of people on here who have clearly never even driven a Nissan Leaf never mind owned one! We bought a 62kWh Leaf 6 months ago and I couldn't be happier with it. Two kids, older one has lots of hobbies requiring different bits of kit etc. and younger one still in a pram. No issue whatsoever space-wise or in terms of range, I've never been stranded anywhere or unable to travel (and I've done almost 20 thousand km in the past 6 months). We also have two dogs and they happily sit in the boot when taken anywhere. Got a roof rack for bikes etc. and planning on buying a roof box for use in the summer. OP the only way to know for sure whether it will work for your family is to take one for an extended test drive, most garages are more than happy to facilitate this in my experience. Insurance not an issue, in fact mine is less expensive than it was last year on my older diesel car.

Depends how much space u need but we have a Mitsubishi Outlander phev and it's a good car. Large boot for our 2 large dogs and can do our local life all on electric

Also, if you research well-to-wheel efficiency you'll find that electric vehicles are far better for the environment in terms of emissions and embodied carbon than internal combustion engine vehicles. This efficiency increases dramatically if used in conjunction with renewable energy, for example solar PV panels on your roof to power your EV charger. Hybrids are a disaster in my opinion and I'd warn anyone not to go near them. They have higher emissions than standard ICE vehicles, due to the battery lugging around the weight of the engine and vice versa, they also have much higher service and repair costs as there's both an engine with moving parts and a complicated electrical system.

Hyundai Ioniq might also be worth a look?

We have had a Leaf for 3 years and I love it. It's specious inside and I can get a weeks worth of shopping plus the largish pram in the boot.

I have never had any issues with it. We charge at home overnight or when I shop in Lidl.

I it every day on my commute (10 miles each way) and it's really nippy, the perfect commuter car.

Hello all,
There are more out there than just the nissan leaf and new models getting released all the time. I get my cars from www.premiercommercialvehicles.co.uk

How long do you tend to keep cars for op? My sense is that the price, range and infrastructure isn't quite there yet for EVs, but it probably will be in 5 years time when you're next looking at a new car. Also it is worth remembering that a lot of the environmental damage caused by a car comes from the raw materials and its construction. If you're getting rid of a car too early in its life and replacing it, you may be doing more harm than good. If yourcars are both running well and not causing any problems, it might be worth hanging onto them for the time being.

Hi @Marahute firstly I would say ignore @FartingInTheFence and his ill informed foul mouthed rants. EVs are rubbish, French cars are rubbish, VWs are rubbish... yeah really constructive input there mate.

Every discussion on EVs attracts a bunch of blokes (yes, always blokes) who think they know better than everyone else and go on about battery life, range and charging times, and how EVs are powered by coal and blah blah blah blah... yawn. Absolute rubbish all of it.

I bought a used Nissan Leaf last year (2017 model, 30kWh). We live in London so most journeys are easily within range (as are most journeys that most people do). We have an 8 month old DS. The boot is pretty big, easily fits our bugaboo cameleon. I wouldn't expect any issues with a family of 4.

It's a great car and there are many advantages of an EV as I'm sure you realize...

On a cold winter morning, no need to scrape ice off. Preheat the car from your phone, get into a toasty warm, ice-free car 15 minutes later. Or pre-cool in summer.

No need to detour to petrol stations, just charge up overnight (assuming you have off street parking).

Much more relaxing driving experience especially in heavy traffic.

No contribution to local air pollution. A great benefit if you do a school run. Cleaner air inside for your kids too, a lot of the exhaust in a normal car ends up inside.

Way lower running costs. Greater efficiency in traffic, unlike petrol cars.

If you like the Leaf, I would say go for it. You won't regret it :)

Definitely go the EV route if you can.

I was lucky enough to get a Tesla Model 3 through salary sacrifice at work - £400/month I'm saving almost £350 in running costs compared t my diesel grand c-max, net cost £50/month.

The tesla makes literally everything else I've ever driven in seem remarkably antiquated, I can't see how I would ever go back.

As for @FartingInTheFence's comments - 280mile range, 1-2% battery degradation per year, performance that puts almost any ICE car to shame, its quiet, comfortable and even drives itself.

I think there are some mis-informed opinions about (but just IMHO). I would actually post this on www.speakev.com/ and find out a lot from their forums. There are a lot of knowledgable people there.

FWIW - we had the BMW i3. Probably the best car I've ever driven, and you could have pried it out of my husband's cold dead hands. Pricey to buy, but we had a lease. But the quality of the build was top notch and the range was very good. Sadly, it's not that child friendly, and we also need a big boot for a baby on the way. I was also one of the first people on the MG ZS EV list, and got a first test drive of it when it came out. We liked it a lot actually and it feels a lot more like a normal SUV (as does the Kia Niro). It is a lot of bang for your buck, but does have some niggles (google the 'bongs' - lol). Sadly, it wasn't meant to be and we refunded, but now are looking quite hard at the Leaf, as the boot is good size and looks like a good family compromise.