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Dyeing (again): this redhead's fading fast!

27 replies

motherinferior · 16/05/2004 17:48

I need to find a different sort of dye for my red hair, which would now harbour a hell of a lot of grey (not to speak of general fading) if I let it go au naturel. I've been using the Daniel Field stuff which is nice but washes out just too quickly. I've looked at various current and archived threads but any suggestions would be fulsomely welcomed - I do want a semi-permanent mainly because I get a bit worried about the potentially carcinogenic ingredients in permanent dyes, also because I'd prefer a fadeout rather than roots. Can't face clearing the time/money for regular salon treatments - ditto henna, if you were going to suggest that, spent too many years with hot cowpat slowly marinading away on my head.

Any suggestions? I cannot face letting nature take its course, even though at my advanced age I obviously should give in gracefully...and anyway, red hair gives me that vital margin for hot-tempered grumpiness that believe me, I need.

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spacemonkey · 16/05/2004 18:22

I used to dye mine red and even permanent dyes wash out quite quickly in red shades.

I think Movida is pretty good although the colour always comes out darker than it looks on the box ...

lou33 · 16/05/2004 19:27

Agree with Sm, even the permanent red dyes still wash out and lose their real colour v quickly. I gave up with red and went to v dark brown because of it.

Nutcracker · 16/05/2004 19:39

I had red highlights in my hair not long ago and they had faded within a week and after a couple were hardley noticable.

I am planning on having fire cracker red next time but i know they'll still fade quickly.

You'd think they'd of figured out how to get it too last longer by now wouldn't you.

Crunchie · 16/05/2004 19:44

MI you should have asked me!! As you well know I do the red thing too, but it does fade. The semi permanents are useless in that they last a couple of weeks for red shades. I use permenant and even that after 3 -4 weeks loses that 'just dyed' freshness. The root thing isn't a problem as I dye again with about 6 weeks anyway - to keep the colour. Even when I spent a lot on getting hairdresser red, it still went quickly. Give up or get used to dying it every month

phatcat · 16/05/2004 20:13

MI - is it the DF Watercolours you use? Have you tried applying it direct to dry hair - it lasts a lot longer. Also there's a lot of variation in how long the different colours last. I've tried most of 'em in the red to dark brown range. I used to use Rich Red Mahogany but only got a couple of weeks at a time out of it, now use Super Dark Brown and get 4 weeks. That's with washing my hair every day. Colour maintainence shampoos / conditioners also seem to help a bit.

juniper68 · 16/05/2004 20:34

Have you tried using a red shampoo? Redken do one or you may find a cheaper version in Boots. It helps to keep your colour. Red molecules are smaller and that's why they come out of the cuticle faster - hey I remembered something from college
Is your hair going 'pinky'? If so maybe buying two shades, one being more naturel and mixing it may help.
Have you considered red lowlights? They grow out gracefully so you don't get a harsh line. You could have a few shades, don't worry you won't look like a rainbow. Colour technicians are excellent nowadays.

hermykne · 16/05/2004 20:37

motherinferior
i had loads of blonde highlighbets and went red about 6 weeksago, sick of roots, and the red has faded nicely but its still vibrant, may some blonde under the red around the face, i know it means a trip to a very expensive hairdressers!

motherinferior · 17/05/2004 08:19

Thank you everyone. Crunchie, I did email you but not at home! I know you're an expert;o!

I have been putting DF watercolour, the reddest shade, on dry hair - and it's lost a lot of the colour in a couple of weeks. I don't mind dyeing every month - just not even more frequently.

I have tried red shampoos too. One or two irritated my scalp - and Henara, which I thought was excellent, appears to be discontinued..

So to products: Movida (in a bright shade), anything else?

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lou33 · 17/05/2004 11:04

Live is quite good as well, though like I say all reds fade quickly.

spacemonkey · 17/05/2004 11:05

Live doesn't cover grey well though. IME the best dyes are the ones that go onto dry hair. The ones that go on damp hair always seem to wash out more quickly ...

lou33 · 17/05/2004 11:06

It covered mine just fine sm, you never saw them did you?! Dry hair application is best though.

spacemonkey · 17/05/2004 11:07

well, i didn't like to say lou but ...

lou33 · 17/05/2004 11:14

Watch it scratchy!

Marina · 17/05/2004 11:19

Well this is all very interesting as I am struggling along with Aveda Madder shampoo and Bixa conditioner and was pondering whether to dye. So whatever you use, if you want to keep your auburn origins, it washes out faster than other colours.
MI it's a total pain about Henara, isn't it...I've used their stuff since I was 14...
My fab hairdresser assures me mine looks fine at the mo and has given me some very good, wash-in wash-out L'Oreal stuff. I will check on the package tonight, I've not seen it in the shops. V pretty red-gold colour.

miranda2 · 17/05/2004 11:56

I use L'oreal Feria (permanent). It does fade, but I only dye it about every 2/3 months - My natural colour is brown, so roots are not very noticeable especially with the fading of the red.
I'm going to have it all cut off this week! Well, not all, but its long now and I'm going to go to a chin-length bob (I think....).

motherinferior · 17/05/2004 12:07

I just keep reading alarming things about bladder cancer and permanent dyes.

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miranda2 · 17/05/2004 12:09

oops....not sure I wanted to know that!!!

motherinferior · 17/05/2004 12:15

I know. Semipermanent apparently OK.

How's the vicking going, anyway?

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Crunchie · 17/05/2004 12:33

You are asking the impossible. A semi permenant hair dye (which by it's very nature has to fade/wash out) that keeps your hair looking really red until it needs doing again I don't think so. The only way to get 'less' fade out are the permenants, but wht's this about bladder cancer?? I mean you are putting the dye on your hair - which is dead, therefore how can that worm it's way into your bladder, unless of course you decide to eat it?? Please don't tell me it leaches in through your skin? I was reading an article about microparticles (can't remember their official name) in conjunction to medicine - ie 'forcing' the medicine via gas through the arm rather than an injection. The particles have to be soooo small for it to work, I cannot believe that hair dye has small enough particles to get in. If hair dye caused bladder cancer you would have reems of little blue hair old ladies up in arms, hair dye has been around longer than the knowledge of bladder canner and nothing you say will convince me I am more at risk of that than getting run over by a bus. You live in London!!! Seriously you must read far too much

lydialemon · 17/05/2004 12:38

I'm going to watch this thread with interestas I get frustrated with red hair dye too! Personally I use what ever is on offer, but the L'Oreal Feria one is good. Sorry MI, don't use the semi's, I like to punish my hair.....

motherinferior · 17/05/2004 12:40

I know a semipermanent will wash out! Honestly!

This is taken from Cancer Research UK: cheering, but not conclusive. And they should know.
Does hair dye cause cancer?
We don't really know the answer to this yet. Some research has indicated that there may be an increased risk for bladder cancer, while other research has suggested that there isn't. Some of the research has considered different types of dyes and others haven't. Some studies have probably been too small to show up any small increase in risk. At the moment it is impossible to completely rule out hair dye as a possible contributing cause of bladder cancer. But at the same time there isn't enough evidence to absolutely prove such a link exists.

There are different types of hair dye. There is no evidence at all that semi-permanent or wash-out hair dyes are linked with bladder cancer. The concern centres on permanent hair dyes that contain oxidative chemicals to bleach the hair, such as hydrogen peroxide.

There have been two large and well-conducted studies investigating hair dye and bladder cancer and these have produced conflicting results. The first of these, the American Cancer Society study, conducted in 1982, did not find any association between bladder cancer and hair dye use. The other, the Los Angeles study, reported in February 2001 that long-term, regular use of permanent hair dye could increase the risk of developing bladder cancer. This study estimates that risk may increase by 2 if hair dye is used monthly and by up to 3 times if permanent hair dye is used monthly for more than 15 years. The researchers found that the risk of bladder cancer was highest in smokers who regularly used hair dyes. Smoking is a recognised risk factor for bladder cancer.

The American Cancer Society study looked at other types of cancer, apart from bladder cancer. They found that using black dye for more than 10 years was associated with a very small increase in risk of death from multiple myeloma. Using black or dark brown dye for more than 10 years was associated with a very small increase in risk of death from non-Hodgkin's lymphoma. But it is important to remember that this is only one study. And these were very small differences indeed for such a large study. The researchers concluded that, if there was any risk at all, it was unlikely to be a major factor.

After the Los Angeles study was published, an EEC body called The Scientific Committee on Cosmetic Products and Non-Food Products intended for consumers (SCCNFP) asked the hair dye industry to provide evidence that its products are safe. The SCCNFP later criticised them for failing to do this and these comments were reported in the press.

More information is emerging about how hair dye might affect bladder cancer risk. Small amount of chemicals, called arylamines, are absorbed through the skin when hair dyes are used. The arylamines are made harmless and removed from the body through the urine, so they come into contact with the bladder. The most recent piece of research has suggested that our genetic make-up affects the way we deal with arylamines. We have genes that make proteins called enzymes, which make these chemicals harmless before they are removed from the body. Some people have genes that make 'fast' versions of these enzymes and others have 'slow' versions. Those with 'slow' versions may be at an increased risk of developing bladder cancer if they use hair dyes very often over a long period of time. There is more research in progress and when this is published it is likely to be widely covered in the popular press.

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Crunchie · 17/05/2004 14:12

OK OK the dye can get though the skin. But until they ban the stuff I will use it

motherinferior · 17/05/2004 14:14

So what do you actually USE, Crunchlet?

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CountessDracula · 17/05/2004 14:17

MI have you thought about trying henna? Natural and you can get red shades.

FWIW I don't remember seeing any grey hair on Sat night! I am about 40 to 50% grey and I used a perm hair dye which has low ammonia. Have to redo it every 4 weeks tho. Would give you the name but they have discontinued it.

motherinferior · 17/05/2004 14:41

You were probably distracted by my horrible new haircut, which DP says makes me look like Keith Chegwin.

Henna takes forever marinading on my head like a redhot cowpat, I used to find. Oh dear, gloom, gloom, grumble...

(Sent you an email, btw, hope you got it!)

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