Lie flat car seats

[Lupe]

I am expecting my first child in July and am getting round to getting all the bits...

I've just ordered a pram - the Bebe Confort Calypso carrrycot and Urban chassis, which seems perfect for me as it's light, portable and simple. I understand that the carrycot can also be used as a lie flat car seat. Does anyone have any experience of using these lie flat carriers - one shop I visited expressed doubt as to their usefulness, saying that the baby would quickly get bored. I had understood that it was best for the baby to lie flat for the first six months, particularly for longer journeys.

My car journeys will probably be regular (but no more than a few a week) but not of great length - maximum usually about 2 hours.

Thanks Mudda for the reassurance (like the nickname!) - it's good to hear from someone with actual experience of a product. I am not concerned about this seat lasting for more than a few months anyway - I obviously will move to the more upright style as it becomes appropriate - it's just that the lie flat option seemed ideal for all the reasons you state (ease of moving to pram, good for sleeping, good for baby's spine etc). And though I wouldn't dream of compromising my baby's safety for economic reasons it seems to make sense to buy a (relatively) cheap attachment to the pram at first and spread the costs a bit.

I find it hard to believe that dangerous impact could be placed on a child's middle through the use of a strap which is quite separate from the fixing attachment - however I will look into the safety standards (Thanks Lizs). And aren't our kids lucky someone invented car seats for them - my mum still shivers with horror when she remembers my brother's carrycot bouncing to the car floor as she braked suddenly!

Sorry but it makes no difference if the carrycot is attached and then the baby - it is the same principle as putting an orange in a cardboard box on the back seat and still securing the box but not the orange (IYSWIM) - just beacuse the box is attached it does not mean that the force of any impact will not make the orange shoot from one side of the box to the other and I know the baby will be strapped in but the force will still be deferred by whatever it is in.

I am sorry to go on about this but for the life of me I can't see anything being safe if it has a harness across the baby - just as a lap belt is not safe!!

I have used the Jane Matrix in both the lie-flat and upright positions. Surely it must be reasonably safe (well as safe as any other chair in the event of an accident) as it does comply with the EC safety norms. And I agree with Lupe, I do not believe this would be sold if it did indeed present a danger to the baby - you have to assume that in the even of an accident, any harm done by the wide centre strap would be minimal in comparison to what could happen. We travelled a few times by car with the Matrix between France and Spain and DS was more than happy to alternate between lying down and sitting up for journey. In fact all my cousins who had/were expecting babies at the time decided to get one too!

Well, if anyone's still following this thread, I did order the car fitting attachment for my carrycot (though neither has arrived yet!) despite some uncertainty.

Following the information I got through Mumsnet I did do a bit more research. I talked again to the owner of the shop I was ordering the attachment from (she is trained to fit car seats) and she seemed happy to recommend the carrycot option in general, citing an example of someone who had been involved in an accident (serious) whilst usiing the Matrix seat and the baby was practically unharmed. I also talked to the road safety dept at the local council who, to be quite honest, had little information on carrycots but seemed reasonably happy after I told them what I had been told by the shopowner (who they recommend as a fitter).

However, I have now seen a new Which? report which STRONGLY advises against carrycots, having tested the Mamas & Papas Navetta carrycot and the Bebecar Tracker (which has now been withdrawn) and found them severely lacking. So, after all that, I'm definitely going to get a 'normal' infant carrier - if anyone's interested, the three top seats named were Britax Cosy Tot, Maxi Cosi Cabrio and Mothercare Travel Tot.

I feel much happier now I've seen some actual research but now wonder why it is possible for the carrycot option to be sold as a viable car seat.

LUPE, PLEASE READ THIS. I don't have time to read all this thread, but there is a report on carrycots in this month's edition of Which? titled 'Crunch time for carrycots: our latest tests show that a carrycot could be a deadly choice for protecting your baby in the car'. They have horrific photographs of what happened to cots, and dummy babies, in their tests. A real child would have been killed. They single out the Bebecar Carrycot Tracker and the Mamas and Papas Navetta as being deadly. The former has now been withdrawn from sale in the UK. They conclude 'If you're using a carrycot, switch to a car seat as soon as you can'.

PHEW! I hadn't noticed your last post.

Thanks for your concern OldieMum - seems crazy these things can be sold, doesn't it?

I don't know if anyone has said this, but I was at the In Car Safety Centre In Milton Keynes yesterday, recommmended for my sn son, as he needed a sn car seat. They do mostly non sn, but have stuff suitable for him.

Anyway they had for sale a car seat that lies completely flat, for about £99. It was called the Jane Matrix, and was a first stage one. This seat place is used by therapists all over the s.e, so they come highly recommended. I think if they were selling it, it would be ok.

Hope this is some use to you.

Link to another site with it for sale.

Thought I'd post here in case any one is still worried about the safety of their Jane Matrix seat. I finally got my Which Online membership through (well, the free trial) so I could look up the reports. I happily used the Matrix for my first baby and was worried about using it for number 2 after the recent reports about car carry cots.

They did a crash test in Jul 01 which included the Jane Matrix. The tests they did recently didn't include the Matrix. The crash tests were the same both times: 40mph front impact and side-impact, measuring impact on head and chest. In Jul 01 they say they recommend the Jane Matrix. It got the same crash test result as the Bebe Confort Elios and Britax Rock-a-tot (ie better than any of the others that they tested).

You can't tell how well the Jane Matrix would do now if they tested it again (compared to the others that have been brought onto the market since) but it is definitely safe.

I thought it wasn't advised that you should sell on previously used car seats for safety reasons???

I haven't read this thread so apologies if this has already been covered. I recently attended a Car Seat safety presentation run by our local council.

They strongly advised against the use of this type of restraint. Apparently in road safety tests they performed very appalling - one well known brand virtually fell apart at 30miles an hour.

Might be worth investigating

their performance was appalling...

I think I need to use the preview button

Given the horrific results from the Which? carrycot tests, I'd be reluctant to assume the Jane Matrix seat is safe. I used to work for Which? and they really don't say things like 'change to a car seat now' unless they have serious, reliable evidence that has been checked, double-checked and checked again (the checking process usually includes asking manufacturers and relevant experts for their evidence and comments and has about eight stages).

The Jane Matrix test was three years ago. Manufacturers usually change something about a product over a three-year timescale so the findings from the 2001 report may not apply. Plus the test methodology may have developed and be more rigorous than in '01 and closer to a 'real' crash (although it was the best you could get at the time). Until the current model is crash tested to EuroNcap standards (the ones used by Which?, more rigorous than the basic 30mph head-on used for current safety standards) I'd play safe if I was buying new and buy a car seat rather than a carry cot.

IIRC, the Jane can be used in the car both as a sideways carrycot and as a conventional backwards-facing carseat. The sidways option is probably nearly as dangerous as the Whcih carrycot tests showed, the difference being that the other carrycots restrained the baby with just one strap around the waist, whereas the Jane has a 3point harness, which is probably marginally safer. But surely the backwards option is still just as safe and therefore the best option to use? Then you can have your cake and eat it: in the car use the seat 'bent' ie facing backwards, but out of the car lay the seat flat and use it as a carrycot.

OK, slightly more research. I'm doing this for my own benefit but it may as well go on here.

The Jul 01 Which test tested the Jane seat in carrycot mode as well as upright mode, and pronounced it safe - as safe as the Britax Rock-a-tot which was the best at the time. They recommended the seat.

The recent test (Jun 04) used exactly the same testing method as in Jul 01. They didn't retest the Jane Matrix seat because neither the seat nor the testing method has changed.

The Jun 04 test looked at two other carrycot carseats. Which? says not to use either of these - it doesn't say don't use any carrycot. The M&P one wasn't held in place in the car, slid forward, and then the frame wasn't strong enough and bent. The Bebecar one slid across the seat in the side impact test. The Jane Matrix went through exactly the same test and was pronounced safe.

The Matrix got the same crash test/safety rating as the Britax rock-a-tot, the Graco Autobaby and the M&P Primo Viaggio. New car seats were safer than it - the Britax CosyTot, the Maxi Cosi Cabrio, the new Bebe Confort Elios and the Mothercare TravelTot.

Sorry if this sounds a bit like an advert. Was feeling like a potential babykiller for considering using this seat .

I think Which fell down a bit on this one. By not mentioning the Jane in 'that' article, they implied that it too was unsafe. I doubt whether many people would actually have gone back and double-checked the way Zerub did.

Zerub, thanks for digging this info up. It's a pity that the matrix was tarred with the same brush. I love my matrix in its lie-flat position. We've just switched to having it upright and I'm having difficulty getting used to it. It seems such a faff in comparison.

Like the idea of baby being able to lie flat as better for it's spine/neck - in a quandry now whether to buy the Jane Matrix Car seat.

Used to have a Graco that had an autobase to slot the seat into as more stable. Wonder if the Jane Matrix seat has something like that or seen a gizzmo on a website somewhere that keeps it more secure. Any tips anyone?

When it lies flat it is solid and we used it alot when travelling long distance. In 'normal' seat position it is still pretty stable and is been well used as it is a 0+ car seat so we are still using at at 9months and will probably continue to do so as fits child up to 13kg not just 9kg. We have been very pleased and impressed with this product.

I'm thinking of buying the Britax Baby-Safe Sleeper lie-flat car seat. Is anyone using this seat or does anyone have any recent experience of lie-flat car seats?

I know this like was brought up when someone on another site was talking about the safety of the lie flat seats
uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WdBRPiNJC7s
Saying that I am not sure if this kind with just the 'waist strap' are sold anymore?

Hello Bear, is your car seat and buggy is still on sale? I d like to buy it. Thanks

Katya- Im guessing you havent realised that this thread is years old! 2004!

I doubt shes still have it now