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central heating heated by an open fire with a back boiler?

32 replies

ellenrose · 06/09/2006 17:37

We are in the process of putting an offer in on a house which we love but the heating is provided via an open fire heating a back boiler when then heats the radiators in each room. I have no experience of such a system and we have budgeted to replace however the property is off of the mains gas area so we have to consider other options. Has anyone had this before, is it any good? Is it better to replace open fire with a woodburner? Or do we get rid and put in electric or a "wet" electric system?

Any experiences or advice would be appreciated

OP posts:
Katymac · 06/09/2006 17:40

Buy a wood burner

I am getting a Aarowe Stratford but Cleariew are a great make

Thewy are very efficient

Do you have somewhere (dryish) to store wood?

ellenrose · 06/09/2006 18:12

Yes, and thankfully my Dad has a fairly constant source as he has a farm which is great . Is this your only source of heating?

OP posts:
Katymac · 06/09/2006 18:14

Well currenlty I have a franc belge which does 1 rad + domestic Hot water

And 4 night storage heaters but when I get my new one I will have 8 rad and DHW/......I can't wait
sorry for typing I am on drugs atm

Katymac · 06/09/2006 18:14

perscription ones

AlienEars · 06/09/2006 18:20

Yes, get a woodburner - ours is being delivered in 10 days. Just got to wait for DH to fit it. It will do 8 radiators and hot water. We got ours - a Herald 8 by Hunter from www.harridgestoves.co.uk and they have been really helpful.

Katymac are you having yours professionally installed or DIY?

Katymac · 06/09/2006 19:23

professional - 'cos DH & I are DIY incompetaent (bit like my spelling)

lilymolly · 06/09/2006 19:34

Hi we have oil central heating as we do not have gas to our home. we put in wood burning stove without back boiler- which is a huge regret, but I would budget quite a lot for oil central heating- I will ask dp when he gets back from pub as he is corgi reg heating engineer!

bananaloaf · 06/09/2006 19:37

in a chouse i rented with a frien we had a back boiler to heat the water from a coal fire. the bind is cleaning the coal fire out. the novelty wears off. you could go for oil/calor gas if you can site the tanl far enough away from the house. we hae oil in this house but also a wood/coal burning stove as back up for power cuts whic come on very uselful1

MegaLegs · 06/09/2006 19:41

We heat our house with a woodburner - it heats water for 11 radiators. It keeps the house very warm. My dh is a tree surgeon so we have plenty of logs. Don't forget logs need to be well seasoned to burn efficiently. Oak burns very hot. I'll ask dh which are the best logs when he comes back in.

MegaLegs · 06/09/2006 19:43

Just realised saying "oak burns very hot" sounds daft. Everything that burns is hot. I meant that some woods seem to produce more heat than others. Oh you know what I mean.

Katymac · 06/09/2006 19:44

Megalegs what brand is your wood burner?

bobsmum · 06/09/2006 19:48

Hi ellenrose
WE have that system exactly!

We've been using coal for the past 2 years which is pricey and not exactly eco- friendly but manageable. as long as you work out how to bank up the coal overnight so the house is still warm in the morning.

However we're in the process of switching to using a Geothermal heatpump system which is going to be great!

Originally designed for underfloor heating, there's a new pump which can heat all your radiators to a constaant 60 degrees and heat your water too.

We were considering a wet electirc system, but when the heatpump idea came up we jumped at that - you can get a grant from the govt because it's so green!

I'm off out now, but will get dh to come on this thread as he is the back boiler and now heatpump self taught expert

Don't get rid of the back boiler - you can get that included into a new system and use any heat that you might produce when you've got the fire. A woodburner would integrate nicely into a heatpump system, but we're hoping for a nicer, prettier open fire than the one we've got.

Don't let it put you off a lovely house - there are ways around this - you might even love the back boiler - some do!

bobsmum · 06/09/2006 19:50

It'sd a ground source heatpump - takes the heat from the earth and converts it for heating the rads. Should pay for itself in 10 years or so?

2Happy · 06/09/2006 19:52

Our house originally had fire heated CH and water, but byt he time we moved in night storage had been fitted. Wouldn't recommend that as an option, really didn't like it, so we had oil-fired CH installed in the spring. Not the cheapest to do, but SOOOOO worth it. We're not on mains for anything, so have an oil tank in the garden and an outdoor combi-boiler, so as well as controllable heating we have fab showers! Or you could think about solar panels, which you can use to heat your water.

MegaLegs · 06/09/2006 19:52

I was hoping you wouldn't ask that! I went to look but it has no name on it. I'll ask dh that too. We have a small JOTUL one in the study that used to do the heating before we extended. It's also quite a pretty one.

MegaLegs · 06/09/2006 19:56

Our woodburner is a Stratford Multifuel Si made by Aarrow Fires

Katymac · 06/09/2006 20:02

is it one of these?

MegaLegs · 06/09/2006 20:04

DH says that the golden rule for buying logs is to buy them in the early spring and let them season over the summer. Oak needs 2 years to season. Fruit wood burns well and smells nice. Ash and beech are also good for woodburners. Pine (and all conifer) should be avoided as it is full of tar which clogs the flue and makes chimney dirty more quickly.

MegaLegs · 06/09/2006 20:10

Yes, it's the Stratford TF70b

Katymac · 06/09/2006 20:18

Are you happy with it?

How is the glass?

Is it just a wood burner?

How easy is it to get the chimney swept?

Does the silver bit stay shiney?

Sorry about all the q's but it is quite a lot of money

MegaLegs · 06/09/2006 20:25

Are you happy with it?

How is the glass?
Needs regular cleaning although the better seasoned wood is less tarry and is cleaner.

Is it just a wood burner?
No it has a back boiler that heats 11 radiators.

How easy is it to get the chimney swept?
Very, the flue that came with it has a hatch on and we also have a little hatch in the chimney breast. We have it swept once a year around now.

Does the silver bit stay shiney?
Ours is brass and yes.

Sorry about all the q's but it is quite a lot of money

MegaLegs · 06/09/2006 20:25

And yes we are very happy with it

Katymac · 06/09/2006 20:26

Thanks

I think i maight get one

MegaLegs · 06/09/2006 20:27

Glad to have been of serviceDidn't think this would be one of my areas of expertise.

Bobsdad · 06/09/2006 20:44

Hi Ellen.

I would not advise putting in a wood burner unless you have the time to look after it (by which I mean, loading the fuel and chopping the wood). It is a cheap way of heating your house if you have a ready supply of logs, but what you save in money you will spend in backache, chopping them all summer. It sounds romantic until you actually have to do it. Believe me, I've tried.

I suspect most people with woodburners actually buy pre-prepared wood, which of course is not so cost effective. You still have to load them regularly, of course.

Neither would I advise installing oil or LPG. They may appear comparatively cheap today, but think of it this way: now you are in the rare and privileged position of actually getting to choose how you heat your house, do you really want to choose a fossil fuel? Not only is it environmentally disastrous, it is only going to get more expensive. What seems the cheap option today could be costing you a small fortune in even 5 years from now.

Our house currently has two heat sources; a solid-fuel rayburn, which heats our hot water cylinder by convection, and a coal open fire with a back boiler, which also heats the cylinder by convection but additionally supplies a pumped radiator system. It works well but is a pain, as you have to shovel coal three times a day, and is filthy. Coal is also quite pricey, especially when you can be burning a tonne per month in the dead of winter! The rayburn is a hassle as it's not even in the kitchen any more (the house has been extended) so it's been drained and is up for sale.

As my DW has already posted, we are installing a ground-source heat pump. This draws heat from the ground, concentrates it and feeds it into a cylinder, from where hot water for the taps and radiators is drawn. The science of it is exactly the same as your fridge freezer, which extracts heat from the inside of the cabinet and expels it via that mass of pipes on the back. They get quite hot don't they!

The heat pump is a far more efficient option than a 'wet electric' system. Wet electric would require upwards of 12kW to heat a three-bed semi. A heat pump could do it on about 5kW. So unless your house is tiny, or you don't mind a huge - and I do mean huge - leccy bill, steer well clear of electric boilers.

The biggest downside of installing a heat pump is the high up-front cost. Our system will come in at about £12,000 (although we will only pay £8,000 as there is a 30% grant at the moment, and our cost would be lower if we had sufficient land for trenches to bury the heat collectors - as it is, we have insufficient depth of soil, so have to have a 100m vertical borehole, which is double the cost of 200 metres of 2-metre-deep trench).

Anyway, it's a lot to invest in your heating unless you plan to live there a while and get some of it back in fuel savings. Remember that once it's in, the running costs are absolutely tiny, so you will get that money back. The standard estimate is 10 years; comparing with your current coal system it could be 5 years or less.

The other caution is that there are comparatively few companies supplying heat pumps and even fewer installers. We are having to deal separately with the heat pump supplier (who is also designing and specifying the system), the borehole excavator (and you need planning permission to have that sort of machinery in your garden), the electrician and the plumber. It is all very doable, and I would say extremely well worth doing, but you need to be ready to do the legwork.

If you want more information on heat pumps, our supplier is reputed to be one of the best. Have a look at Invisible Heating Systems' website . Their main business is underfloor heating (which works very well with heat pumps) but they do heat pumps as well. It used to be the case that you couldn't really have a heat pump unless you put underfloor heating in as well, but technology has moved on and now there are models that can get your rads up to 60 degrees c, so you would not have to rip out the existing plumbing and lift your floorboards. All you might have to do is increase the size of the radiators (replacing single panel with double, for example).

If you do opt for a heat pump, I'd be happy to share more details of what we've had to plan and consider over this summer. Ask me by email though, I think I've already posted enough of an essay in this thread. shepherds . house [ a t ] virgin . net

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