Travel systems, bad for babies?

[misdee]

my young cousin is preggers with her 1st baby. i am going to offer her my pram. but she wants a travel system. i dont like them as feel they are bad for abbies backs to be in a sitting position for so long. cousin doesnt drive, not sure if her b/f does. anyone got any more info on travel systems that i can give her?

Well I understand that they shouldn't be left in the carseat for hours on end.
Otherwise,no worries about them.

thing is, i;ve seen people strap newborn into carseat, attach to the frame, walk to the bus stop.........

well if she doesnt drive presumably she wont need to put the baby in the car seat part much, can use the buggy part laid back instead, so it seems like there is not much to worry about!

I have heard that they are bad for babies backs. They shouldn't be in a sitting position for too long & it is reccomended that they are only in car seats for short periods of time when they are very tiny.
I went on a fizzy course through work (to help children with gross & fine motor skills) & they told us there how these travel systems were really bad for babies & could lead to problems later on. Don't know how much truth is behind this.

i can imagine her usijng it like imentioned earlier...

ok, i just really want her to use my pram

not all travel systems come with car seats though - mine has a carry cot and a pushchair bit and we have a separate car seat which doesn't fit the pram cos I had no intention of ever doing waht you are talking about.

If it is only going to be used for short periods of time, I cannot see it being a problem.

why on earth does she want a travel system if she can't drive??

is somebody planning to give her a lot of lifts?

Some babies seem to live in their car seats - they sit in them at home, get carried to the car in them, travel in them, seat goes into the pushchair to form the travel system etc. It can't be good for their backs, and isn't there evidence that they tend to flatten the backs of babies' heads?

But the one benefit is that you can carry the seat into the cubicle when you use a public loo, instead of having to leave the door open. Not that I'm saying its good to be in carseats like that, just that that is one good reason for a non driver having one. Its a nightmare if there's no disabled loo, or if you have to go and fetch a radar key.Or you've had a c section, and are then trying to hold the baby whilst hovering over the loo to wee

I have a M&P Pilko Pramette which is a travel system but it is a pram as well. We only once travelled with our DD in the carseat attached to the chassis. Its true about leaving the babies in the car seat for too long can be trouble, they recommend 3 hours max IIRC, but I think thats the same for any carseat

well both my dds had travel systems and they are fine! but they werent in them for long periods. however my sil wanted one for her dd while they were living in germany but the lady in the shop advised against them till baby was about 4 months i think b/c of the bad for back thing. and the german healthcare is supposed to be better than ours isnt it? (ducks and runs for cover...)

we had a travel system, but never actually used it as one except once, when we had to take the car seat with us on a train to use at the other end. It was incredibly heavy with the car seat in.

I really don't get why they are so popular tbh.

I don't remember public loos being a problem either [baffled emoticon].

I had a travel system and intended to use the pushchair as a lie flat pushchair. BUT dd had reflux so ended up using the car seat all the time as it kept her more comfy.

Was a godsend when going shopping as could just slot her in and out of pushchair/car without waking her.

Agree about leaving them in it for hours though.

i dont like babies in car seats all the time

Elf1981 on Thursday, 6 April, 2006 7:01:40 PM

"I have a M&P Pilko Pramette which is a travel system but it is a pram as well. We only once travelled with our DD in the carseat attached to the chassis. " Please Elf, talk me through putting up and folding the Pilko, its driving me mad. I call it something else similar to pilko. I have abandoned it for a second hand Silver Cross because they suit oldies like me, but as we have it in the cupboard I would like to know how to use the damn thing.

peaches i have had a pliko, they are really easy to use when youve done it a few times! do you have a pliko or a pliko p3.

ours is a pliko (old stylee) - there is deffo a knack to it, but it's dead quick once you've got the hang of it. The tricky bit is pulling on the handles to release the clips near the wheels.

There have been studies done in other countries that have concluded that a prem/small and an average newborn have about a 10% reduction in dee breathing due to the position of the body in a car seat.

The constant use of car seats can aid the developement of 'flat head syndrome' as well as hindering the babies natural body flexing and the brains recognisition of cross body movement- [left arm over chest to right leg].

The optimal car seat usage is for no more than 2 hours with an hour out of the seat before using again.

I walk around town and a large number of babies are in car seats on the pushchair and i think the main reason is because baby is facing mum in this way, the availability of a pushchair that has a lie flat facing mum seat that can then be turned to face foward has become a rare commodity on todays high st.

\deep breathing\

I was advised by my hv that nowadays they see lots of children aged 3, 4 or 5 who have problems with backache. She said that they never used to see problems like that 20 yers ago or so and put it down to the over-use of travel systems. (Anecdotal, I know.)
Bad backs, breathing issues and flat heads aside, I can see no point in someone without a car getting a travel system if ours is anything to go by. They tend to be expensive, heavy, bulky and difficult to manoevre. (BTW, hardly ever use the car seat on the chassis b/c of concerns about how good it is for dd to spend too long in one).
Baby will be much more comfortable in a pram for the early days, with a compact buggy for when s/he is older. Ideally a rearward-facing one. If your cousin wants something "fashionable", what about a 3-wheeler? They can usually be adapted for newborns and are great for people who walk a lot.

doh, only just read your thursday 6.28pm post properly misdee. Think she is bonkers, they are a total pain to push like that apart from the dodgy effects on the baby.

She's lucky to be offered your pram, it'll save her a helluva lot (am assuming she isn't that flush if she's young?).

I personally think a pram is too open. A newborn is used to being scrunched up in the womb and suddenly having the freedom to flail all 4 limbs around in an open space can be scary to some babies. I have certainly heard anecdotally about car seats being bad for babies back but until I see read convincing evidence of this (can someone post a link), I am just going to file it under "urban myth". The bad thing is not the car seat per se, but strapping babies in one position for a long time awake with no stimulation. misdee, I am not sure your cousin would be doing that.

I know the carseat/travel system was a godsend for my dd who was a terrible sleeper.

hi had found this on a website ages ago when looking for car seats but can't remember what site it is from!! had printed it off for a friend. hth

May we first state it is VITAL that babies are always put in a correctly fitting car seat or car carrycot and the information below MUST NOT in any way deter you from using a babies safety restraint. We would also mention that in specific types of accidents (in particular head on crashes) a car carrycot is not so safe as a rear-facing seat. However, in some other types of accident a car carrycot (sometimes also known as a "lie flat" car seat) may well out perform a rear-facing seat.
There are two concerns regarding upright / chair shaped infant car seats (known as group 0 or 0+ infant carriers).
The first concern originated from the UK and is based on professional opinion not proven fact. The concerns are those from some State Chartered Physiotherapists who believe that there has been a increase in back problems in children around twelve to sixteen years of age in recent times. Some Physiotherapists believe the likely cause is that babies were placed in car seats before the spine had developed sufficiently. They base this conclusion on the fact that prior to this time babies often travelled in carry cots strapped into the rear seat of the car. We understand that these concerns have been raised twice in the UK Physiotherapists monthly journal "Frontline" and at least one medical research report published seems to support the view.

The second concern originates from the USA, Japan and New Zealand. The problem relates to the fact that a newborn baby's lungs are not always very efficient and when sat in a car seat (which is very restricting) the lungs efficiency decreases still more. Additionally a newborn can not hold their head so in turn the amount of air, which reaches the lungs, is also decreased. When baby is winded during a feed, parents often support babies head to an upward position to allow wind to come up. So perhaps it is common sense that airflow decreases when the head is not supported. In America it is recommended that new-born babies are observed in hospital whilst sat in their car seat prior to release but it is also noted that sometimes it is not possible to ascertain which babies are at risk even when this procedure takes place. The published medical research reports (we know of nine) all conclude that infant car seats do effect babies breathing sometimes causing apnoea (which has links to cot death) or bradycardia, here are a few abstracts from the reports.
"Respiratory instability of term and near term healthy new born infants in car seats" by University of Minnesota School of Medicine states "Because lowering oxygen saturation values was seen uniformly in all new born infants car seats should be used only for travel and travel should be minimised during the first months of life"
'Effects of child seats on the cardiorespiratory function of newborns' by Department of Paediatrics, Kobe University School of Medicine, Japan. states: "Moderate desaturation was observed in four of 15 infants in the chair shaped car seat, whereas not observed in the bed shape car seat"
'Oxygen desaturation of selected term infants in car seats' by Department of Pediatrics, Metro West Medical Centre, Framingham. (MA) USA states that :"infants should routinely be transported in a supine position car seat in the early months of life".
The titles of some of the other medical research reports we have seen perhaps clearly demonstrates why flat car seats appear better than upright / chair shaped ones.
The titles include
'Rear facing restraints for small child passengers - a medical alert'
'Some healthy new borns suffer Apnea or Bradycardia when placed in a car seat'
'Airway of babies in car seats'
Medical knowledge in the UK on this subject seems to vary depending on where you live. Some UK hospitals are changing to 'lay flat' car seats for internal use and recommend that babies should travel flat in the early weeks of life. Health professionals in most areas do recommend that babies should not sit in a car seat for more than ninety minutes, but the Japanese medical research report seems to suggest that in certain circumstances that is far too long! Family circumstances (such as not having enough room in a car for a lie flat system or that it may not fit safely in your car) may mean you will have no option but to use a rear facing chair shaped seat. Should that be the case we would recommend that you use a seat with low degree of incline and keep journeys to a minimum especially if your baby was born pre term or of a low birth weight. Finally, it would appear babies do out grow this potential risk at about 15 weeks so its not a problem for too long.

nicm, thanks for posting that. I defintely agree that upright and chair shaped carseats are not suitable for newborns. But the only travel system carseats I've come across have the baby sitting slightly inclined with head huggers for head support. On the respiratory front, I wonder whether this study means that slings are also bad for newborn babies' breathing because they are similarly scrunched up?