Anal Sex - why have women not been given this message

[Headbandheart]

www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/11/rise-in-popularity-of-anal-sex-has-led-to-health-problems-for-women?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I’m in my late 50s and around long enough to know anal sex for women is a relatively new thing, and to know that any anal penetration was not a good thing to the body (unless done my doctor in a controlled examination) and could result in damage to sphincter muscles and rupture of bowel. Ok, it was an old fashioned horror story probably relating back to the idea of sodomisation as an act of violence. But none the less, anal sex was very much a weird thing that was to be avoided because of the risks.

somewhere in last 20-30 years or so, the porn industry has made this a “normal” act for women and set expectations, especially with young girls, that they’re a prudish or unadventurous to not participate. Girls are being put under pressure by boys/men that don’t know enough about womens anatomy and therefore creating even bigger risks.

I am simply at a loss to know why we have got to this situation where women have effectively given permission to men to carry out an act that is painful and highly risky for women. Without a prostrate almost all women will take no pleasure physically in it. Why in gods name do women consent to this?

Am I unreasonable to say that doctors are failing women and girls big time for not getting the above message out there until it’s too late for many women?

Some woman are not under pressure to have anal, some willingly enjoy it and have orgasms from anal.

Reading the article in full shows that it refers to anal sex as being a risky behaviour because of its association with alcohol, drug use and multiple sex partners: in that context all sex and like I s more risky.

The research also says that the risk is greater for woman then for men, it does say what the level of the risk is. I’ve read the original research and the risk is small with 9.9% woman having anal sex getting fecal incontinence vs 7.4% for those who don’t have anal ( for men anal incontinence is 2x more likely).

Other research says that up to 25% have fecal incontinence after childbirth.

The article also says if you have anorectal symptoms then not discussing anal sex as part of the diagnosis would be a failure on the part of the doctor.

As with all scientific research it’s important to understand what the data says, this doesn’t say that every woman or man will destroy themselves by having anal.

Up to 25% have anorectal incontinence after childbirth? Source?

The risk is greater fir women yet men are twice as likely to suffer anal incontinence? ?

Or am I misreading this.

That’s what the orginal research says. The risk is in not revealing anal sex if you have anorectal problems, I’m guessing a man is more likely to asked about anal in that situation

www.babycenter.com/baby/postpartum-health/postpartum-anal-incontinence_1157264, but remember that in most cases it’s temporary

I used the words up to, that doesn’t mean 25% of woman have fecal incontinence. I couldn’t find a more specific figure.

As a mid-fifties father of four young adult children (including three girls) I do have big concerns for them about the pressures and expectations they face which were never there when I was their age.

On this one I think that the genie is well and truly out of the bottle. Probably a positive approach is most helpful I think. I believe the message (based on my own experience, for whatever that is worth) should be that anal sex can be a safe, enjoyable experience for both men and women as long as there is genuine mutual consent and there is appreciation and real understanding about proper, informed preparation beforehand and that the "mechanics" of anal sex are entirely different from vaginal sex.

And that it's most definitely not something to be "expected" or assumed. Some people enjoy it but many people won't ever and that is entirely normal. If there's any doubt on either part in a sexual encounter, don't do it.

Whether doctors are the right people to be giving this message I'm not sure. Usually they are the people we go to when something has already gone wrong. Plus these are facts which I think need to get across particularly to young men who are not generally the ones going to their GPs.

Public service broadcast announcement? I can't see it. But I do see the issue.

I disagree with your presumption that anal sex is painful and that women take no physical pleasure from it. You only have to hang around the sex boards here to realise that many women actively enjoy anal sex and can often experience a very different orgasm from that experience.

That said, I agree that porn has placed tremendous pressure on both men and women to agree to anal sex when perhaps they might not have done otherwise.

Education about anatomy, safety precautions and informed consent is what's needed. Does anybody know if anal is covered within sex education in schools?

It is

It doesn’t have to be painful as long as it is relaxed, with consent and completely under control.
I actually really enjoy it but only as an occasional treat otherwise it gets samey and not exciting.
We don’t get to have regular sex due to various reasons, so we grab what we can. But we do have the odd (maybe once or twice a year) occasion where we just let everything go, and that almost always involves anal.

I have been asked and have refused several times, and only ever do it at my suggestion with the conditions on my terms. But as I say, from my point of view, it’s worth it.

I’m slightly confused about this article though. I understand what they are saying, but surely by that reckoning, there are a hell of a lot of gay men in committed relationships who have the same problem?

If women want it and understand the risks and consequences, that's fine by me. The way that some women create expectations that impact others is a concern.
Grace Campbell's article in The Guardian last week was scary.
( www.theguardian.com/society/2022/aug/06/sex-positive-comedy-las-vegas-rape )

@Headbandheart "I’m in my late 50s and around long enough to know anal sex for women is a relatively new thing, and to know that any anal penetration was not a good thing to the body"

My apologies for the long response, but I believe your post requires a detailed answer. This is my first post on Mumsnet, so I hope the regulars go gently with me.

Anal sex for women is certainly not new, and as other posters have made clear it is something many people find extremely pleasurable. It is, however, something that cannot be rushed, and absolutely should never physically be forced, however keen on the experience the 'receiver' might be in their head. Because the internal sphincter of the anus is not under voluntary control, even a person who really wants to try anal sex can be very badly injured if they do not allow their body to adjust to what is happening, and that can take a lot of time and care.

For me, the critical sentence in the linked Guardian article is this:

“The pain and bleeding women report after anal sex is indicative of trauma, and risks may be increased if anal sex is coerced,” they said.

As the father of several daughters I am just as worried that they may come across men who will pressure them, or worse, to do something that they do not want or do not feel comfortable with doing, but at the same time my own personal experience is that if sufficient time and care is taken, within a consensual relationship, anal sex is something that women can certainly enjoy a lot, and does absolutely no harm.

@Headbandheart "somewhere in last 20-30 years or so, the porn industry has made this a “normal” act for women and set expectations"

In my case, the porn industry had absolutely nothing to do with it, and in fact it was actually four women that slowly introduced the whole area to me, over a number of years. A male acquaintance told me, over 30 years ago, that his ex-girlfriend had been very keen on doing it, but he hadn't been, and it had contributed to them ultimately splitting up. That reminded me that my first 'proper' girlfriend had enjoyed a bit of mutual anal play here and there, but we hadn't gone any further than using fingers on each other, even though she had strongly hinted at the time that she might like to (hindsight is a wonderful thing). Much later another girlfriend told me that she had dreamed of us having anal sex, but we separated before that idea could be explored.

Finally, another girlfriend went a great deal further, and deliberately guided me to "the wrong hole" without me knowing and without lubricant, but it didn't work out so well, as you can perhaps imagine. The fact she was very keen to try it, along with all I had learned from the above (and some additional research I then did to help get it right), meant that when we did use lubricant and took a bit of proper time and care, it was absolutely fine, and anal sex became an exciting, albeit infrequent part of our sex life. If I'm 100% honest, the actual physical sensation for the 'giver' is a bit 'meh'; the joy in the act for me is mostly in the sense that I am doing something that requires a hugely trusting and close emotional bond with the 'receiver', and in the fact that the orgasms that the 'receiver' experiences seem incredibly intense and satisfying.

I agree that porn has played a role in normalising anal sex, but porn presents an utterly unrealistic and abnormal impression of all sex acts. My experience of anal sex has been very female-led, grounded in the real world and has nothing to do with porn.

@Headbandheart "I am simply at a loss to know why we have got to this situation where women have effectively given permission to men to carry out an act that is painful and highly risky for women. Without a prostrate almost all women will take no pleasure physically in it. Why in gods name do women consent to this? Am I unreasonable to say that doctors are failing women and girls big time"

It is beholden on all of us parents to ensure that our children are educated to understand what their bodily autonomy means, and how they can best ensure that they are not pressured into doing anything that they are unwilling to do. We are also responsible to ensure that they understand that sex is something that can be incredibly pleasurable and very much part of a normal, loving relationship, and that anal sex may or may not be part of that, as they choose.

Doctors have absolutely nothing to do with it.

Doctors have everything to do with it when you have suffered the damage. Hence why they e done to extent of trying to get warnings out their.

your perception of porn as a man versus the average teenage girl is different. Whilst anal sex has been about since man evolved, it did NOT becomes mainstream. Jeez, as a teenager and university I never came across it other than a very “taboo” fetish. It certainly was not mainstream until the pornification of society through the internet.

as is your perscpetion of whether women like it- you only know what you’ve been told by women and that, unfortunely, is heavily influenced by what women want to tell you as a man. We all know women or ourselves as women who faked orgasams to be “kind” or just get the thumb over with.

it’s good you are taking an interest in your daughters welfare. But I’d also urge you to take an interest in what MEN are doing and instead of writing on MN to women about it. Raise this issue and challenge men and boys on it in your own male focused chat rooms, pubs, schools, clubs fgs. Men have to take a lot of responsibility for bullying, nagging, pressurising young girls to do Anal when they’ve barely any, if any, experience of emotional relationships or vaginal sex, or god forbid something like cunnilingus. Many girls are being pressurised into Anal, slapping, videos, strangulation, sex can’t and photos , when they will wait months or even years to come for an orgasm. Maybe that’s where men should start- understanding their partner’s physiology and responses to ensure she can actually experience an orgasm, and passing on those basic life skills to the younger generation of boys and men

Oh, and this thread got disbanded as another poster put same thing into feminism board- that has far more reponses and a better cross section of womens opinions…if you want to inform yourself about what women really think take a look there.

@Headbandheart "your perscpetion of whether women like it"

I note with interest that you have ignored all the other posters that have replied to you to personally say that they enjoy anal sex. Do you imagine they are faking it too, only online?

@Headbandheart "Doctors have everything to do with it when you have suffered the damage. Hence why they e done to extent of trying to get warnings out their"

Your position appears to be that anal sex is always, and in every case, damaging to women and therefore justifies some kind of all encompassing campaign from doctors to get warnings out to everyone. Because you are wrong in your position, and plenty of people do enjoy anal sex, your position is hyperbolic. What is needed is education to ensure that if anal sex is attempted, it is done in such as way as to minimise any risk, and that if one does not want to attempt it, that is absolutely fine too.

@Headbandheart "as a teenager and university I never came across it"

Good for you, but your anecdotal experience does not invalidate or negate mine. The first two women that I reference in my education about anal sex were teenagers, as I then was. The third was a girlfriend at university and the fourth a girlfriend who I met not long after I left university. The experiences described span some 8 years starting from 37 years ago.

@Headbandheart "this thread got disbanded"

Given your final paragraph, I suspect your OP was moved from AIBU because it is about sex - Mumsnet generally doesn't allow sex-related threads to persist on AIBU. The fact I and others could respond to it suggests it is still very much alive.

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I'm a woman. I dont have a prostate. I enjoy anal sex, I get a lot of pleasure from it and very intense orgasms. Never experienced any form of damage.

The porn issue - well I agree to a certain extent but like everything else it has trends abd phases. I dont see many people shagging their step mum in real life.

If women are being pressured and forced into anal so easily then its not just men that need educating!

Given and received anal sex, it’s like everything else, reasearch, safety and consensual, everything is fine.

While I like a bit of anal play I have no idea why anyone would want something as large as a cock up there no matter how much preparation has been done, but each to their own. When I was at uni 30 years ago there was a couple that only had anal as 'up the bum no harm done' ie they didn't have to worry about pregnancy.