Advice for the old and tame

[RubyPaterson]

DH, me, married nearly 20 years, two DCs, both just knackered and fall asleep on the sofa rather than getting to bed at the same time. Getting on now (40s/50s not 70s!). Menopause, etc etc.
Morning/daytime no go for a variety of reasons, we kind of need to put it in the diary for an evening to just actually stay awake!
But it does tend to be more or less the same every time.
I think DH would run a mile if I suggested dressing up (and vice versa) and we are a bit limited in terms of positions for reasons of injuries (mainly mine, sport didn't like me when I was younger).
Never been successful at BJ and DH never found them that exciting. Not going to watch porn (ewww) though some more explicit films/TV programmes occasionally get us thinking. VERY bad at talking about what we want, though not too bad at communicating while in bed.
I think we want some really boring ideas just to get us a bit more interested.

How okd are the children? Do you get private time together? If so, sex should be something that happens during the day, not something you do before you go to sleep.

Does he go down on you?

Oral only sessions sometimes? I note what you said about blowies but you also said you can communicate, maybe re-consider and discuss your technique?

Do you ever use a vibey?

scheduling is important.

Some easy variations -- how about different rooms of the house? Try to use more than the usual places.
Any chance of getting the DCs to a long sleepover/grandparents to allow more time and energy?

DCs quite young and due to lack of childcare weekends/nights alone don't happen.

DH says he's not really into BJs. But other non-penetration things work OK for us. So a session with that would be good.

Never tried a vibrator with DH. He's quite trad (there is almost nothing that's usually on this board that he'd go for!) so might think that's a bit out there - told you we were tame!
Other rooms used to happen... Pre DCs.. Pre getting creaky...

Your marriage could last for many more years, so you absolutely MUST start communicating right now. Talking about sexual needs, likes/dislikes, desires, etc., is not to be done in the bedroom - that puts pressure on partners. Turn off the TV, and put down the books if necessary, but begin to talk about the thing that matters - your relationship. Start talking over meals, during the evenings, or even go out for a meal and chat. It's quite hard to fall asleep in a pub/restaurant, so that might work. The prospect of spending another half of a lifetime with someone and not actually communicating one's wants and needs is one I find scary.

Secondly, you are getting older but it isn't right that you are both so tired all the time. I think that visits to the GP with blood tests to check on thyroid levels, & potential Type 2 Diabetes, etc., would make a great deal of sense. You may have to change your 'lifestyle', but a life restricted by torpidity is not inevitable. I have injuries that restrict me in my choice of sexual positions, but submitting to being too tired to make a physical connection is rarely a good move.

You may have to change somewhat your perception of just what sex consists of as you age. It does not always have to be the orgasm-led PIV intercourse that many tend to have in their relative youth. You need to research this together as a project and discover lots of new avenues of sexuality. Try them all out: some will prove to be a dead loss, others will be quite appealing and deserve further investigation. I would urge you not to dismiss anything without looking into it. I cannot imagine any man not liking a blowjob of decent quality, so why not set yourself a target of becoming an BJ expert? If he isn't a talented lover of going down on you, then that could equally well be a goal of his. Giving a partner pleasure is my target in sex; my orgasm takes a back seat and my pleasure often comes directly from the place I take her to.

The menopause can be pretty tough for some women, but do try to regard it with a positive frame of mind. My wonderful partner looked at it from the point of view that it was a final release from the tyranny of periods. We already had no worries about pregnancy, having both been seen to in previous relationships. We are now a couple of years into post-menopause and it's marvelous.

This problem is not going to be solved by simply 'dressing up', or buying a vibrator. Things like that may be part of a solution brought about by a fundamental change in your communication about your sexuality, so get talking - now.

Best wishes.

DH does actually have a long term health condition which does not help, but a lot of the tiredness is primary aged DCs getting up early, commuting, one of us has a cold then the other one gets it. Summer is usually better and roll on teenage lie ins!

I know it's very un-Mumsnet but I don't even want to like BJs. Sorry. Never have, don't think I ever will. I don't see the point in trying to like something I don't want to do, it seems kind of rapey frankly. DH may be being polite but I don't think he's been that fussed before we got together (we weren't THAT young but we were both a bit inexperienced.)

I think we have more chance of sitting down and talking frankly than of trying something new and exciting, it's just getting over the "we don't really talk about it, we just do it" hump (except for the bit where we don't seem to do it that much). We can manage a babysitter for a dinner out, that's a step in the right direction.

And v good point about another 20/30/more years!

RubyPaterson, we have three children, the youngest of whom at 18 is in his first year at Uni, so I know all about tiredness and how draining normal life can be. You absolutely do not have to be at it like rabbits, but sex for most of us is not just a physical pleasure (masturbation would be all that we need if it were solely about orgasms), but it is also an expression of the love we feel for someone. If you don't nurture your sex life it can die away and you eventually find yourself either at best living with your best friend, or at worst living with someone you have grown to despise. Sadly, this sort of thing can creep up unnoticed and you are very wise to want to do something about it now.

For the reasons above, I feel it is vital that you keep the fire alight until the children are old enough for you to have those all-important lie-ins. If you do nothing now and expect the embers to be still glowing in a few years you could be in for a shock. As soon as our children could amuse themselves with some degree of safety, my partner and I would perhaps retire to bed on a Saturday afternoon making it clear that we were only to be disturbed in an emergency. Not only did that mean that we could make time for sex at a time when we were not too tired, but the children grew up in a house where it was normal for adults to show some physical evidence of affection and love. By the way, I was raised in a home where I never saw my parents even hug, kiss, hold hands, etc., so I know how damaging that can be. Our eldest two are now 25 and nearly 27, and they have grown into well-rounded adults with no hang-ups about either sex, or physical affection. This leads me to say that there is an element of keeping the physical side of your marriage healthy in order to bring up children with the right ideas of what a happy marriage should look like. You owe it to them as well as yourselves to have a decent sex life.

I am not a psychotherapist by any means but I am a bit concerned about your opinion of a BJ as somehow 'rapey'. If your only image of a BJ is the often violent way we can see them depicted in porn, then I can see how you might think that way. However, what on earth is 'rapey' about a woman giving her man a BJ when he does not have his hands around the back of her head, forcing himself down her throat? Some people like their BJs in that forced manner, but they can also be very gentle, sensual, and intimate. What two adults consensually do with the aim of giving each other pleasure cannot be 'rapey'. Your remarks make me feel that you might need to recalibrate some of your views and there would be no harm in seeking professional help in that task. Sex therapists are out there.

To emphasise: you are doing the right thing by wanting to keep the spark alive now, instead of trying to revive life into it when it's been dead for ages.

Oh it's not the BJ per se, it's the idea that I should carry on again and again with something I actively dislike when DH even says he's not that bothered.

But ITA re making sure we keep the spark alight! It's the how I'm struggling with.

I use the BJ emotions only as an example in that if you don't like giving them and he's not that keen because he has never had a good one, then it's a sort of circular thing. How will things ever change if you don't change them?

In a meaningful analysis of oral sex I have to ask myself whether any man really likes going down on a woman: the taste is hardly chocolate, there is the view, the neck pain, the jaw ache, etc., but I absolutely love it. It isn't a pleasurable act in and of itself, but it becomes wonderful through the places it takes my partner to - and that is what makes me adore going down on her. There is a particular mindset here that I think we need to get in our heads. If all we want is an orgasm, then we just masturbate. That would mean no need to make ourselves presentable with a shower, either before or after, no requirement to brush our teeth, no foreplay, no need to cuddle afterwards, but we do have sex because it gives us pleasure to pleasure our partners and it strengthens the bond between us.

Frankly, I would do anything if it gave my partner pleasure and that is a great place to be. She isn't in quite the same place, but she is close. For example, a couple of years ago I asked her to get her nipples pierced. Initially she was not that keen, but ended up thinking 'what's the worst thing that could happen?' A couple of years later we both adore her piercings. They are a total delight to us and a tangible symbol of just where giving things a try can lead. We met when she was 35, never having had an orgasm in her life, and never having had a man either go down on her, or given oral to a man. Sex toys were something she had no experience of. We have both had the courage to try new things to keep the spark alive and we've been together for 17 years. I am 63, not having sex as frequently as I did years ago, but definitely having the best sex of my life in terms of quality. We are very much in love with each other and things just get better & better despite the advancing years - but it didn't happen by accident. You are on a journey with your partner and sometimes they want to visit a place you and they have never been. You need to be adventurous and go with them even though you are pretty much convinced you will not enjoy the trip. Guess what? Sometimes, in spite of yourself, you actually like the place and want to go there again.

Another example, this time one from outside the bedroom: I love motorcycling and could never get her to ride pillion with me. A couple of years ago I told her that I wanted to do more riding in my early retirement but that I wanted her to be with me. She plucked up the courage and loved it right from the very first ride. She admitted that she wishes she had tried it years ago. I make adjustments to make it enjoyable for her - instead of having lunch at a chippie when out for a ride, we will have pub lunch, because I know that she likes that. A successful marriage entails compromise and making sure that you keep your own side of the street clean if you want the same from your partner.

The examples you're giving though are of things that one person knows they like (or thinks they will) not where both people are either not bothered or have tried and actively dislike it.
Would you have suggested a piercing if your DP told you she'd tried one and not liked it?

New things to try are fine; insisting you "just haven't had the right ABC yet" when you have actually tried something and not liked it is at best suggesting your personal taste should be everyone's.

Maybe you could read some erotic literature and it may give you ideas on things that you would like to try?

A vibrator might not be on his board but you never ruled it out....buy one and tell him(once ordered) I think he might be intrigued and be willing to try it out.

I think he might be intrigued...

@onemorerose any suggestions? Not 50 shades and that ilk. He is unlikely to read it but I can always read him bits if not too cringey.

Sorry I’ve no recommended sites as I just think of what’s turning me on at that moment, google of and add stories to the end.
If you think he may be intrigued by using a vibrator on you then use that as a starting point to look at. (I know you don’t like blow jobs but I’ve been told that holding a vibe to a mans dick and then licking around it feels like a deepthroat to them)

Bizarrely, some things are an 'acquired taste' and plenty of sexual practices fall under that category as far as I am concerned. I would be prepared to do things that I wasn't keen on providing they were neither harmful to me, nor painful, if my partner found great pleasure in those acts. For me, it is all part of the give and take involved in a successful relationship and does not sound anything like my personal taste should be everyone else's too.

I return to my thoughts about first checking that all is medically OK with you both and then opening lines of communication from there.

Have you considered pony play?

@xpc316e 'I am not a psychotherapist by any means but I am a bit concerned about your opinion of a BJ as somehow 'rapey'. '

What OP meant is it rapey for people to say she should do something she doesn't want to do. I don't mind giving BJs but I don't like receiving oral- I know a lot of women do, but I don't like the sensation. Everyone's different, and if we were to insist people do things they don't like, then yes, that's rapey.

'Oh it's not the BJ per se, it's the idea that I should carry on again and again with something I actively dislike when DH even says he's not that bothered.'

Good for you OP. x

@NameChangeNugget- lol!

I agree with those who have suggested toys- it's something different without being a massive effort/chore or anything. You could have a browse of LoveHoney for things to experiment with www.lovehoney.co.uk/

Different but no effort - that sounds good. I'll have a look for something that doesn't involve any athleticism. DH will no doubt crack up laughing but that's probably good.

And yes, that's exactly what I mean by rapey (probably the only time I've used that word!)

Nothing worse than received a BJ from someone who you know doesn't like it. One half of your mind is trying not to enjoy the sensation so that you dont orgasm.

IMHO mutual masturbation is very erotic - not too much exertion, face to face if desired, can use lubes and toys and multiple positions .

DW and I now do various things that she considered disgusting when we first met.

I don't think this discussion should get fixated on oral (or any other sex act), as it isn't the be-all and end-all. However, I would say that it's wrong to consider it as morally bad. It's no different to liking or disliking carrots, and the fact that you don't like eating them now need not mean you have to decide that you'll never try them again, as your tastes might change.

Baby oil, massage. Take your time. Quite nice (especially the bit where you get a nice massage after a long day and can lie there resting! And then leads to a nice shag, ideal.)

Betty Dodson has been in the news this week because of being on that GOOP Netflix documentary. I downloaded her book orgasms for two: Partnersex on my kindle. Some good ideas and written when she was in later years so nothing too energetic! Even a chapter called Sexual Seniors talking about her double hip replacement, and she’s still at it. Refreshingly written. Recommend!

If you don't nurture your sex life it can die away and you eventually find yourself either at best living with your best friend

Absolutely nothing wrong with this if it happens naturally and without bad feeling btw

Take turns to blindfold each other. Use ice cubes, feathers, vibrator, whatever.