overcoming vaginismus

[Zebedah]

Hello!
Don't want to drip feed (or out myself) so will try to be concise.
Was diagnosed with vaginismus around 7 years ago. Started therapy but wasn't getting anywhere fast then therapist left and wasn't replaced. Have tried with dilators but only get so far before pain resumes. God knows how I've let so much time pass.
Have recently been referred to new therapist- if this doesn't work we're looking at surgical intervention and/or botox. Also been prescribed Citalopram- in the hope it relaxes me.
Questions- has anyone successfully overcome this? How? Any experience with Citalopram/surgery/Botox?
Also feeling painfully shy- any advice on how to push through this? Ridiculous as been with DH for over 10 years! Want to build up slowly but those first few steps feel so scary.
Thanks!

I understand therapy is an effective route, so it's worth pushing to find a new therapist.
Other than that Have you tried the usual breathing techniques, yoga, relaxation techniques, and regular exercise?

Thanks for replying 0phelia
The doctor is on with finding me a new therapist so hopefully an appt will come through in the next few weeks.
I do exercise regularly and practise breathing techniques but not relaxation techniques- sex specific or just general? It's definitely something I would like to try, just not sure what to search for specifically.

I'd think about relaxation techniques (warm bath / candlelight / breathing / fabulous music type of things) both in relation to sex, and generally.

Vaginismus means you need to allow more time to build up to the act. It's a tricky conundrum of not wanting to make a huge big deal out of it and also needing that relaxation space to prepare yourself physically.

You and your DH may benefit from mutual erotic massage, sharing a bath beforehand and generally building up to PIV together, gradually. You don't have to agree in advance necessarily that you will end up DTD, but feeling close and intimate will help.

Your therapist should help greatly in unraveling those thoughts regarding PIV sex that cause tension, and also help resolve other areas of stress in your life generally that may be presenting.

I have a bath every eve as a way to chill out but like the sound of candles and music to make it extra special.
It does make it a big deal and no matter how many times we say 'no pressure' I can't shake the pressure!
Massage is nice but feels like expectation again, and sharing a bath is a no go- would be funny to try but would flood the house
It's the building up I'm struggling with. We are very affectionate day to day but it's taking it to that next sexual level. It's been such a long time I don't know what to do!
God this feels embarrassing.

I suffered from this for years and was unable to have intercourse, use tampons etc.

I went to GP and they referred me for counselling, the counsellor gave us all these exercises to massage each other and so on with no expectation of anything sexual. Personally I didn't find her or her exercises useful so never went back.

What helped me was a book called Vaginismus from a website, I think it was Vaginismus.com , I ordered the book and dilators (you can get just the book) and just worked through their programme, I also had access to their message boards which was quite useful.

All the programme was really was using dilators gradually whilst also examining possible underlying reasons for having the condition.

I just used the dilators every day for weeks and weeks, sometimes I'd be stuck on the same one for ages. I received the book etc in June 2011 and managed intercourse around September I think, was pregnant in October.

If you want to chat about anything, feel free to ask here or via pm. It feels really hopeless but this can be overcome. It does feel embarrassing and I think that makes it harder to seek help or try and fix it.

Have you been with your partner long? Will he be able to support you in trying to overcome this?

Maggie x

Hi Maggie
Thanks so much for sharing your experience. I know the Dr says how it's common but it feels pretty lonely :-/ not something I feel I want to chat about with friends!
I've heard of the book & dilator combo- when I tried dilators before I made good progress at first but stalled and became disheartened. I don't think it helped that I did it alone and inadvertently built up this stupid embarrassment with my own husband!
I'll look into just the book and with any luck it might help me progress with the dilators again.
I wasn't mad about my first therapist and found it a bit wishy washy- I'm hoping for a more direct approach from the new one.
DH is a saint, thank god. Together over ten years and he's v supportive.
Always makes me sad and a bit worried when I read on here about 'you can't have a relationship without sex' and the 'flatmates' thing because we are very happy, but if I could overcome this it would just be the icing on the cake :-)
Thanks again for sharing, and well done on overcoming this and going on to have a baby!
Out of interest, did it come back post birth or have things become easier? If you don't mind me asking! X

Hello, I went through a few therapists and some horrible ridged dilators and got no where. In fact the stress if failing made me go backwards. I ended up not being able to even use tampons. It was the last straw and so after lots of research i flew to America to get the Botox treatment and it was a wonderful descision. Aside from the instant physical improvement from the injections, the associated therapy and use of much better dialator set helped massively. I wouldn't say i have overcome it forever and actually in the ladt couple of weeks I've taken a few steps back but things are still hugely improved. The day dp and I managed sex was amazing.

The clinic I went to for my Botox is sadly closed now as the wonderful doctor retired but the resourses are still available.

The Pure Romance dilator set is silicone and far nicer than the nhs prescribed ones. Be selective about your lube, it's worth paying more for good stuff. Use them as often as you can.

There are still days when I dispare, feeling like I am just housemates with dp but I know things can be better. Im away right now and will be for a few weeks otherwise I would send you all the great resources I have on my computer. I might have access to some.

And a massive yes to everything 0phelia said!

Why is sharing a bath a no go?

www.vaginismusmd.com/aidsproducts/

This site has the dilators, worth every penny. And there is a forum and lots of good information on there.

I very much had to treat it as two things 1) dilation to stretch and relax the muscle spasm 2) being comfortable with dp, that sevond one is harder. I fully understand what you feel. We are so in sync with everything else but when it came to sexual contact it seemed embarrassing but once I told dp that he did a great job of saying things to help. I still struggle but I wanted you to know you are not alone!

Oh, last thing, I promise. As MaggieVee said, use the dilators religiously. What really helped my was dp documenting all the info, so date, time of day, size of dilator, how long I managed to have each in for then a rating out of 10 for psin and another for emotional anxiety. It was sooo cool to see the sizes and time go up while the ratings went down. (We sent the data to our doctor weekly)

This takes me right back. I overcame this many many years ago and it took a good few months, but I used teeny tiny dilators, slowly increasing in size, in private, never with DH spectating, and generally not treating it as a sexual thing - just a muscle that slowly needed stretching. Used to use them carefully while reading a book and relaxing and so on. Lube is a huge must though.

Also - the "flatmates" thing is when all sexual contact stops between you for a long time. Sex doesn't necessarily mean PIV - loads of couples have other ways of being intimate for medical reasons or just plain preference reasons.

As long as you're still being loving to each other in form of physical skin-to-skin contact, you're unlikely to just turn into casual friends! And even if you lost that for a while, all relationships go through peaks and troughs and most can be rekindled.

Thanks everyone, I can't tell you how much it means to hear your experiences and know that others understand what is going on in my head! To go back to a few points:
wings my GP has agreed to refer me for botox if there's no improvement. Did you find that after it wore off you were back to square one or did it give you a kick start? I feel I need to show my brain it can be done!
Point one I think I can manage in the end- it's point two I'm finding difficult. I dunno how we got to this- I can talk about sex with him but when it comes to doing stuff I can feel myself shrivelling/cringey. Wtf?!
pottering our bath isn't big by any means. DH looks a bit cramped and all legs in it on his own never mind with me in there!
I don't have the nhs dilators, just some carefully chosen vibrators starting small (bullets) working up.
I used to use them every evening/5 times a week so will try to get back into that. Also good shout on the lube, reminded me to order some more pjur.

Hi again

Yes it definitely feels lonely, I have never discussed in real life apart from with GP and midwives (who hadnt heard of it, sigh) That's why the message board on vaginismus.com was good except quite american and they often opraised the lord when they moved up a dilator size and that wasn't really my thing tbh. I found conselling wishy washy too, they were telling me I was scared of a penis etc when to me it was a weird physical thing. Certainly DH and I did everything else apart from PIV so it;s not as though I felt uncomortable about sexual contact. Felt more like a mechanical issue to me.

I wish I still had the book, it was really matter of fact and step by step and helpful including how/when to transition to intercourse. I sold the book on Amazon a while back.

I had a G&T in bed and watched junk TV for 20 minutes or so after work each day and did the dilations, DH never got involved and I asked him not to disturb me.

I think you can have a really strong and healthy relationship without PIV sex as long as you still have a spark and sexual contact.

We were together over 10 years before I managed to have PIV sex with him.

I was 36 when I did the book/programme.

I got pregnant before we'd properly progressed - we were still having to plan/book sex in so that I could dilate first. After DD was born, things were the same as before really, we had sex at 5 weeks after her birth but I dilated first. Since then I have had a son and another daughter and now we don't need to dilate at all, everything can be natural and spontaneous which is great. Still take a minute or two to get started off though as my muscles are instinctively tight. I would say it's easier since baby two or three though. Maybe I now have a bucket fanny!

Please don't despair, keep trying, and you will fix this issue in the end I am sure. I honestly never believed it was possible and yet it was.

Keep asking anything you want, happy to chat. How old are you, you want kids, you ever had PIV? Any idea what caused your issue? Everyone assumes I was abused but that's not the case. Prudish anti-sex parents but not sure if that was a factor.

Maggie x

Ah that's really interesting that you used dilators before trying sex, stupidly I hadn't thought of that but it makes perfect sense!
I'll check amazon as maybe others will sell theirs on there too- I like the sound of step by step and matter of fact.
My new GP has been great about it and happy to be patient-led e.g. She hadn't heard of the use of botox or antidepressants. I'd have preferred her to prescribe valium as it's the antispasmodic I was looking for but she advised people can become addicted.
I have had PIV before and even enjoyed it, I'm not sure where things started to go wrong. It's frustrating/upsetting that people jump to abuse as well, I've had that too. I think for me it was the pressure I put on myself like 'oh we haven't had sex for a couple of days so we must' then the pain set in and I just started saying no.
We had a bit of a rough time at first but DH is the best about it. He's really reassuring and just wants me to be happy.
I am 26 and the push this time really is because we're starting to think about ttc though I'd like to enjoy the trying for a while!
In my head I'm sure we can get there but then my body acts out and crushes me again :-/ it's so annoying that it won't do what I want it to!

At the risk of being a bit, er, overly clinical or TMI about it - after using dilators your DH could use his fingers for a while too to help open you up a bit and get you used to feeling something and relaxing a bit. You might want to focus on that small intimacy being "the goal" for a while and just mess around a bit?

There are just a lot of muscles down there. All muscles can be affected psychologically (which is why stress can be a cause of backache for example - and I wouldn't rule out stress as the cause of this either), but it can be a physical thing too of course.

First things first, is it definitely vaginismus or is there a chance it could be something else like vestibulodynia?

Secondly, have you ever been referred to a vulval pain clinic or a gynaecologist who specialises in these kind of conditions?

I have personal experience which I don't want to go into here but feel free to PM me if you'd like.

Based on this experience, my suggestions for you are:

1. See a women's health physiotherapist. They will be able to help you to relax and retrain your vaginal muscles. They may also suggest external massage that will help. You should be able to get a referral from your GP or gynaecologist to see one on the NHS.

1. Find a good sex therapist. They can help you (as a couple) deal with your feelings about sex, the impact as a relationship, and advise you on ways to improve your sex life such as sensate focus therapy. You could try Relate - I've heard mixed things about their general counselling but the sex therapist I saw was excellent.

1. Don't take Citalopram. If you have significant pain, Amitriptyline or Nortriptyline may help. But I've never heard of Citalopram being used for conditions like this. If all you need is a bit of help to relax, I would try things like yoga, mindfulness (which have both helped me massively) etc before resorting to medication.

HTH

Merd that's a really good idea- a smaller goal I can aim towards! That doesn't feel so far away. I think you make a really good point about stress being a cause for many things- I do suffer with my back and tension headaches but am making more effort to let the unimportant things go.
It's quite a busy time at the moment so I'm trying to look after myself a bit- exercise, eating well and a good nights sleep. I've also taken some steps today in reducing my workload which should come into effect in the next few months which will help.
AnotherEmma I'm fairly certain it is vaginismus but will definitely look into the other vulva pain issues and see if anything rings true. I think I need to give things another go with the dilators to double check what and where the pain is too- hopefully then I'll be in a better position to determine this.
The GP is eager for me to try the therapy first before referring me to gyna dept- the idea of retraining muscles sounds like it would be very useful for me. I wonder if there's anything in the vaginismus book about this?
If the next therapist I'm referred to isn't for me, I will consider going private ie. Relate. Money is a bit tight as we are a single income household but it's getting to the point where it is something I will invest in- I'll try pretty much anything.
Thanks for the advice on Citalopram. I haven't started it yet and you've voiced what I feel in my head. I've never tried yoga beyond some beginners stuff but I have a colleague that teaches it & mindfulness- I'll see if I can get on one of his courses.
Thanks again everyone. It feels good to get it out in the open & have some real world advice!

The book is all about retraining the muscles and learning to relax them, there are special exercises you do with them and breathing techniques before using the dilators.

Good luck keep at it. There were so many people on the vaginismus forum, it can't be that uncommon in real life, you're not alone.

Hi OP, it's awful isn't it Not being able to enjoy something that everyone else seems to find easy. I used to be so jealous of people on tv shows who could have sex up against a wall within seconds! Like Maggie I ordered the book and dilators from vaginismum.com and they worked. I think it took a month of me using them on myself very slowly and gradually, and just learning to breathe and relax my body. I couldn't believe it when we had full sex (9 months after getting together ) Think I had more than a few wines...

7 years later and it still takes a few mins of him slowly going in while I'm breathing deeply, but it's not painful and I now know what pleasure is coming. Once he's inside then it starts feeling good.

Hope you can enjoy sex soon

Billbrysonsbeard are you me?! It's nice to hear someone else's story I can really identify with, everything you said resonated, and great to hear another success story - hurrah! The book was good wasn't it. Apart from the affirmations section which I skipped!

I've just seen your post and although this isn't something I have talked about for years I wanted to give you some hope.

I suffered with vaginismus for the first 8 years of my marriage. I couldn't have sex, wear tampons, have an internal or even have a smear testI Eventually I sought the help of a therapist who made me realise what had triggered this in me. My dad was a very caring but strict dad who made it quite clear what would happen if he ever caught me having sex before I was married (my DH and I have been together since we were 15). Sadly although my dad was very loving and thought the world of me and my sister he was also physically abusive if he felt we had let him down.

By the time I got married at 23 I was so programmed that sex was a dirty thing that I could never relax and would become anxious. Eventually my GP referred me to a gynaecologist just to check everything was physically ok. He tried to do an internal without success but felt it would be a good idea to do a Fentons procedure whereby he slightly widened the entrance and also broke my hymen. He also did a smear test whilst I was asleep. To be fair we were still unable to have full sex for a few years but then suddenly things began to change. My dad left my mum for her best friend and I think I suddenly realised what a hypocrite he was. Slowly but surely we started to be able to have sex. 15 years after we got married I became pregnant and although very sadly we m/c that baby, I quickly became pregnant again.

I was petrified of child birth as I was worried that if I had an awful vaginal birth I would be back to square one. Luckily I saw a specialist who was incredibly sympathetic to my problem and really seemed to understand my fears. I was worried she would think I thought I was too posh to push! She agreed that a c-section would be best for me. I gave birth to my gorgeous DS when I was 38.5 having NEVER thought I would have children. My DS is now 16 and although sadly due to my age I didn't go on to have anymore I don't feel resentful at all. I have everything I have ever wanted and my DH and I celebrate our 31st wedding anniversary on Weds.

If nothing else I want to give you some hope that you can get through this and lead a "normal" life. Now I just have to hope no one recognises me on here as I have never talked about it before! Good luck to you xx

This is just my experience. I had vaginismus in my first relationship. I was scared of sex. I also deep down didn't trust my boyfriend (with good reason, it turned out, he was cheating on me) despite being mad about him. Prior to meeting him i couldn t even insert a tampon and felt weird, different, ashamed etc. I had used dilators as a teenager, , just to be able to use tampons
Then with my husband I just felt able to relax. It was painful the 1st few times, then not at all. I think the fact that he was non judgemental, and a trustworthy person (unlike 1st BF) made a big difference.
Oh and my Dad had similarly Victorian values as ice queen's so maybe there's something in that.
Finally, you could try a joint and some poppers (advice from a gay friend!). Haven't tried it myself but poppers are used by gay men to relax the anal sphincter.

bill thanks for sharing- your story really gives me hope and it sounds like quick results once you got going with the muscle training.
icequeen thank you for taking the time to share your experience. It's so hard to talk about even on an anonymous forum. It feels humiliating as it's supposed to be the most natural thing in the world. Your procedure sounds quite painful and a bumpy road. It's interesting to read the different psychological factors at play here too- I don't remember my parents being uptight about sex but it wasn't something we talked about.
whataboutbob I can imagine trust issues have a big impact- it's good to hear the happy endings on here.
I have thought about poppers! Or even a space cake but I'm not really a drugs kinda girl and I think my DH might feel a bit weird about it.
I'm trying to be mindful that I really don't want to hurt his feelings. We were talking today and I was trying to say that sometimes I panic and look for an excuse to escape get out of bed or whatever if things are getting heavy when really I should just talk! I put this stupid pressure on myself and close up in more ways than one!
With a bit of work on body and mind I'm hopeful I can get my happy ending too :-)