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Secondary education

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Original poster

German verbs; DS1 has a mental block

24 replies

OrmRenewed · 01/07/2010 09:48

DS is in yr8 and in his second year of learning German. He's at a level 5 and his teacher is pleased with him. But he has had to repeat a verb test twice. And has to do it again! I sat down with him last night and tried to help him learn them. It was impossible - I reckon I know them better than he does now.

I know nothing about German - why would he be struggling so much with these. They are the verbs for to have, to be and to become. Are these irregular verbs? Are they very different to the others? There seemed to be no regular discernible pattern to the conjugation.

He seems to prefer things that he can understand rather than learn be heart which might explain this. Or am I clutching at straws?

OP posts:
Bonsoir · 01/07/2010 09:50

German verb conjugation is not nearly as difficult as German noun declension. How is your DS doing with declension?

Would it help your DS to know that even German children need to learn verb conjugation and noun declension by heart? They are not as intrinsic for native speakers as all that!

Original poster
OrmRenewed · 01/07/2010 09:52

Ha! Thanks bonsoir. Yes it will help him to know that. He was getting quite down about it last night - saying he was stupid which isn't like him at all.

I don't know about noun declension, I will ask him. As far as I know he hasn't got any other problems.

OP posts:
Original poster
OrmRenewed · 01/07/2010 11:02

He hsn't been put off though. He's going to start learning Russian in his lunch hour

OP posts:
Bonsoir · 01/07/2010 11:34

Good for him

HoopyFroodDude · 01/07/2010 11:47

Orm have you tried putting them on his ipod ? you can download free lessons. There are also loads of youtube videos that may help.

Original poster
OrmRenewed · 01/07/2010 11:49

Thanks.

He has no Ipod but he can get to Youtube.

OP posts:
HoopyFroodDude · 01/07/2010 11:52

not sure if this is what you are looking for but eg

HoopyFroodDude · 01/07/2010 11:52

dd puts things like this on an extra tab whilst doing homework and it sinks in in the end

ZZZenAgain · 01/07/2010 11:52

did he have to learn just present indicative: ich bin, du bist etc; or imperfect , perfect, pqp etc? If all the forms, maybe too much at once and he needs to break it down in chunks, one chunk a day over a week.

Maybe learning lists off by heart though, isn't the way he works. What about a verb workbook so he gets a couple of pages practice with each verb actually writing them out in logical sentences?

Original poster
OrmRenewed · 01/07/2010 11:55

Just present indicative atm zen. I will look into a verb workbook for him.

OP posts:
ZZZenAgain · 01/07/2010 12:02

Maybe 2 days on sein "to be", 2 days on "haben" etc

sein and haben he will need later for constructing the perfect tense (past - ich habe gegessen, or ich bin gelaufen) so good to get on top of them. But once you've learnt them, you know them.

I would stick a list up on the wall somewhere he spends a fair bit of time.

Butterbur · 01/07/2010 12:19

DS1 has always struggled with foreign languages, and to a certain extent with English spelling and grammar.

A year ago, when he was 15, the school arranged to test him for dyslexia. The trigger was actually that he struggled to complete his exams in the alotted time. The test showed that he was dyslexic, and he got and extra 25% time in his GCSEs. He was always way above his reading age in primary school, and was off the scale by the time he left, so it never occurred to us he had a problem.

If your DS is doing well in other subjects, it might be worth exploring this with the school.

Original poster
OrmRenewed · 01/07/2010 12:25

He's doing Ok butterbur although his best subjects are maths and science rather than the more creative (for want of a better word)subjects.

How is your son now? Was it the writing that slowed him down in his exams?

OP posts:
Butterbur · 01/07/2010 14:18

He is slow at writing, and being left handed doesn't help. IMO that was partly because handwriting for speed doesn't seem to be taught these days.

His problem was more absorbing the question, and assembling the information for his answer. His essays tend to be a big spew of random stuff, not properly organised into coherent arguments. He also frequently doesn't quite answer the question that was asked.

And yes, he does better at science and maths, but sadly isn't really interested in it.

Tinuviel · 01/07/2010 14:35

If you go to this website, I've set up a game for your DS to practise those 3 verbs. They are irregular and important as they are auxiliary verbs - you need haben and sein to form the perfect tense and werden to form the future.

Glad to see he has a teacher who actually insists on grammar!!

www.schoolmouse.eu

If he types in his name (doesn't have to be real) and the game number 9366 it should open up a window with a choice of playing against the computer or another player. He needs to pick the computer option and there is a horse-racing game. His horse's lane will have a green arrow at the left.

He needs to type in the verb he is given. The pronouns come in order - ich, du, er, wir, ihr, sie (they, not she). So when it says ich + sein he will type ich bin. It will then go onto du etc. Hope that is of some help!!

Original poster
OrmRenewed · 01/07/2010 15:09

Brilliant! thanks so much tinuviel I just had a go and completely forgot all of them. I think my horses ended up with broken legs.

OP posts:
Tinuviel · 01/07/2010 17:12

Mine do that when I play the chemistry games!!

cory · 02/07/2010 09:11

Remind him that the English verbs "to be" and "to have" are also irregular: those of us who are foreigners have had to learn that. I remember being in tears over it- though I was a good deal younger than your ds. I mastered it in the end- I can now do Mumsnetting!

Original poster
OrmRenewed · 02/07/2010 09:33

I will hold out the promise of MNing in German to him. I'm not sure it will work though

OP posts:
Tinuviel · 02/07/2010 21:58

OrmRenewed, you need to type in the pronoun as well as the verb on the game - so 'ich bin', not just 'bin', IYSWIM!

flyingwellundertheradar · 02/07/2010 22:05

Dd is struggling with these verbs in French. They are the most common ones and for some reason I think that's why they are so incredibly difficult - something about being contorted during v common usage over centuries. Everyone finds them appalling, and everyone forgets them. Please don't let him be put off, he is doing well to tackle them.

flyingwellundertheradar · 02/07/2010 22:08

Also, ds is similar in that he is not used to having to learn things by rote - he prefers maths and science where everything can be worked out by logic. Languages can be worked out by logic, but only once you've learnt some stuff parrot=fashion. It is just tough, but there is no way round it, it's much worse in the early stages of language learning, then logic takes over and he will be flying.

daphnedill · 02/07/2010 23:19

You could try encouraging him to learn them in groups of three, eg. ich bin/du bist/er ist as a rap or to a well-known song.

Some hints (in case he doesn't already know):

The "wir" form is the same as the Sie (you)/sie (they) forms for every verb in the present tense.

The "er/sie/es" forms are always the same, so he only needs to learn the "er" form.

CastleDouglas · 03/07/2010 15:11

If you don't mind spending £10, then 501 German verbs (Henry Strutz) is ideal. I used it years ago and still use it occasionally, when I need to check a verb.

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