Is BTEC Applied Science Yr 9/Double Science GCSE ok?

[Mima1]

Hi - this is my first ever question so apologies if I get the protocol wrong! I have 3 chn and f/t job so never had time to use Mumsnet except look odd thing up but now stuck with Year 8 son's science options and thought someone might have been through this before.

Son is technically in Year 8 but school promote to Year 9 curriculum after Whitsun. Children have been already been set as Year 9 for Maths, English, Science, Languages and PE. He used to be quite good at Science (5+ at KS2) and is still very interested but since starting secondary has erratic test scores (due to fluctuating levels in revision I think). He has been told is doing an 'accelerated Applied Science BTEC course in year 9 followed by Double Award Science GCSE in years 10 and 11'. Part of the year group is doing 'triple science' but he is not eligible as his level (after 2 years of secondary) is still 5+.

I have spoken to his science teacher who says science is not a subject where knowledge builds unit by unit so it is not unusual not to make any progress in terms of NC levels. But because he has not reached Level 6 he cannot do triple sciences. She feels it is better to get 2 A's or B's via this BTEC/Double GCSE route than 3 C's via traditional GCSE's. In fact the BTEC is done at the end of Yr 9 (next summer - when some chn in the class will still be 13)then they have two years to do the Double Science so they can end up with 4 Science GCSE's rather than 3.

If anyone has stayed with me this far, my question is...is this actually better for my child and will he still be able to do Science A'Levels if he wants to or is it a way of maximising the school's value added or average point scores. I don't want to be cynical just work out whether I need to support him in swapping now. School have not offered swap and even if does well by end of Year 9 it is not possible to swap onto three GCSE's at that stage.

We don't get any info on other GCSE options until next year so I feel a bit in the dark about it all. Do I need to worry?!!

I have seen other threads on BTEC and Double Science but not on taking together. Apologies if I have logged this in the wrong place!

Any views much appreciated!

Ok I am totally confused! I got a letter at the begining of the holidays saying that my son has been selected to follow the Btec Applied Science pathway when he goes back in year 9. This will lead to the award BTEC First Certificate which is equivalent to 1 GCSE, then he will complete either a BTEC Diploma in Applies Science (which is equivalent to 4 GCSE's) or move on to the GCSE Pathway and gain 2 gcse's in Science. The last bit was copies word for word-how can this not then be worth anything as a lot of you are saying?

I teach BTEC level 2 (different subject) and some people are of the mind set that as it is currently 100% coursework based then it is not as good as GCSEs and for sure, if students are going to do traditional A levels then it is better for them to do GCSEs as the learning/assessment styles are similar. However, BTECs are vocational and set the theory learning into a vocational setting and this does make it easier for students to understand what they have learnt/why they have learnt it and apply it.

Just to show that BTEC learning is not below standards; I entered some of my BTEC level 2 students (start of year 11) to the first unit of the AS in the subject and with no additional learning (other than a short revision sessions) the grades back were 75% of them achieving a D whilst the rest acheived a C.....

This seems to still be a contenious issue for many people so it is probably time for an update as o what everything is and the implications.

Triple science GCSE - the most to easy understand. 3 separate GCSEs in biology, chemistry and physics with the grades being individual for each. Lots of schools now start this in Y9 because it doesn't always get a decent time allocation in KS4. Leads onto A-levels in biology, chem, phys etc (usually criteria is a B in the subject for progression to A-level) as well as the other post-16 options like A-level applied science, BTEC level 3. Students achieving L6 at KS3 should be given the opportunity to study triple sciences but these are only recommendations and not legally enforceable.

Double award options..........

Science + additional science - A traditional course combining biology, chemistry, physics but with the equivalent modules of 2 GCSEs. Grades awarded separately so can be different for the science part and the additional science. Progresses to all A-level and BTEC level 3 routes but for A-levels in pure sciences the college looks for a B in the additional science component usually.

Science + applied science - A general science course with the second award being more based on work related contexts. The 2nd GCSE the 'applied' GCSE usually has more coursework than a traditional course (approximately 50%). Rarely accepted as suitable for progression to pure science A-levels but can progress to A-level applied science (which isn't a bad course by the way, very good for potential nurses, primary teachers who just want a bit more science) or BTEC level 3.

Double award applied - Same as above but both awards are in a workplace context and have a larger coursework content. Same progression as above.

Single award.........

Many schools will enter lower ability students for the compulsory core science GCSE but some will just automatically use the BTEC route. No progression to A-level pure sciences, some colleges will accept for A-level applied science if they get a C or BTEC level 3.

BTEC - 100% coursework assessed. Can be equivalent to 1 or 2 GCSEs at level 2, pass, merit or distinction (equivalent to C, B, A GCSEs). No progression to A-levels in pure sciences, possible progression to A-level applied science in some colleges, usual progression is to BTEC level 3 but this is not commonly accepted by universities as suitable for entry. My word of caution in this is that it is not particularly respected as currently all work is assessed internally and there have been cases of students gaining credit where work does not exist, is copied or even done in a week. This has all weakened the position of BTEC although there are moves to strengthen the external assessment. It isn't accepted for progression as the mode of delivery in many schools means students retain very little understanding of the science after they have completed the task required to get the mark. Most schools use it as a way of getting a C equivalent double award out of students who wouldn't get that at GCSE although this is likely to change very soon as it isn't counted in EBacc and we are still awaiting the decision on the double science quality indicator.

OCR nationals - v similar to BTEC.

A few other things you might be bombarded with by schools..........

Level 1 qualification - Equivalent to GCSE grades G-D
Level 2 qualification - Equivalent to GCSE grades C-A*
Level 3 qualification - Equivalent to A-level grades E-A*

Hope this helps a few people.

Thanks for posting that Kritur. It was really clear and helpful.

So, if you know your dc is definitely not going to go for science A Levels, would it be ok to go for double science? At ds's school they strong-arm the more able pupils into doing triple science, but for the non-scientists, surely it would be better to bite off less and have a better chance of a top grade.

If your dc isn't sure about studying science A-levels then traditional double science (core + additional science) is fine, it keeps the option open if they do change their mind. It's quite common for kids to take one science alongside other options at A-level nowadays so worth keeping the option open. It's also quite common for them to change their minds, we had one decide halfway through Y12 he wanted to be a doctor despite studying no sciences..........

Thanks, kritur, it sounds like you know your stuff.

I've taught chemistry, science and maths in an 11-18 comp for 6 years and I know that the range of science qualifications these days is bewildering! Roll on the government review and some simplification........