Appeal for Secondary School (Year 8 in September 2010)

[manicmuvvaof3]

Hello all, am desperately after some words of wisdom. Please bear with me, it's long!

In 2008 we (cheekily) applied for a great tho oversubscribed 2ndry school for DD1 for Sept 09 despite living 10 miles out of the catchment.

This was because of serious financial issues, collapse of business, hoping to downsize house by selling or renting it out. We intended to be living in this particular town well before summer of 2009.

Unsurprisingy because we hadn't managed to move into the catchment area by the time places were allocated she didn't get in.

Have since moved into a rented house a few hundred metres away from this great school, (house IS being repossessed )and when I contacted the LEA to inform them of the new address they immediately offered to hold an appeal and said DD1 would now be top of waiting list.
Her younger sister has got a place for Year 7 in September - this was offered as soon as we moved in.

Our appeal for DD1 is next week so we received the LEAs statement ie their argument for not admitting DD1 - appears the year she would go into is 3 over its limit, the next year is 2 over its limit, the next 1 over its limit and so on. What would be DD1's year is split into 8 forms of entry.

A v nice woman in Admissions gave me guidance that it is actually the 6th form which is well over its limits however the LEA argues that the school is "well over its admission limit in the appropriate year group and is already operating with pupil numbers well in excess of its physical capacity"

Despite being a new BSF building the LEA states there are massive accommodation issues - it was built for 1160 pupils but has 1500. They are concerned about overcrowding at break and lunchtimes too.

The LEA also says "Mrs Manic accepted DD2's place in the knowledge that there was not a place available for DD1 at the preferred school."
They've offered DD1 a place at another school over a mile away. To complicate things we have DD3 at primary school a mile in the opposite direction - I know they might argue DD1 could get herself to the offered school. I havent checked but I believe this could involve at least 2 buses due to its location.

The letter ends by basically stating there is no point in holding this appeal (despite them offering it to us) as the LEA will dismiss it.

Sorry this is such a long post, as usual we have the most complicated circumstances! Could anyone offer advice on what questions I should be asking the LEA (and which department)and what info I need to gather to back up our case.

My argument so far is that we live about 200-300 metres away, DD1s sister has a confirmed place for September and they have already allowed three children into what would be DD1's year group so they obviously dont stick rigidly to their own criteria. Have I missed anything else?
Would love to see any replies - will try to check back in throughout the day. Thanks in advance

You need to prove that admitting your dd would not be detrimental to other children in the school. You could for instance look at numbers of children in each year group and if there are more in other years base our argument like that.

your aim will be to strengthen your case and weaken the LEA's. Try and get as many hard facts and figures as you can - arguments based on emotion are likely to fail.

when arguing for your dd you need to argue why it would be detrimental to her or your family. You have to prove that she is a special case so you can't rely on generalities. The sibling rule should be quite a strong factor.

Thank you for your quick reply Kitten, very much appreciated!

It is not the LA's job to dismiss the case or to say that there is no point holding an appeal. They are, however, required to make as good a case as possible for not admitting your child even though they offered the appeal.

There are two parts to the appeal. In the first part the LA will present its case not to admit. You will then have a chance to question the LA's representative. At this point you should be trying to weaken the LA's case by showing that admitting your child won't be that damaging to the school.

The fact that the appropriate year group is already oversized doesn't help you. Your argument that they aren't sticking to their own criteria probably won't fly. It is likely that the extra children were admitted as a result of appeals, through the LA's Fair Access Protocol or similar. Having said that, it may be worth asking the LA why the school is over the admission number in this year group. If it turns out that the school has chosen to go over the number without good reason that is something worth bringing up at the appeal.

I would also bring up the fact that the reason the school is so far over capacity is that it has far more in the sixth form than it should. This may well be the school's choice - they get extra funding for sixth formers. The panel may not be too happy with that. Again, find out what you can from the LA.

All questions should be directed to the Admissions team at the LA. They are required to come up with the answers you need for your appeal.

The second part of the appeal is where you make your case for your DD to be admitted. This is where you have a problem. Your case at the moment is very weak. It amounts to living close to the school, having a sibling who will be starting at the school in September and the logistical difficulties of having the children at separate schools. I'm afraid none of that gives an appeal panel any reason to admit your child. If you go in with this case your only chance of winning would be to prove at stage 1 that admitting your daughter won't cause any problems to the school. Given how far it is over capacity, that will be difficult.

You need to come up with reasons why your DD's education will suffer if she doesn't attend this school. Does it have facilities that she needs? Are there extra curricular activities that will help her? Is the school particularly strong in a particular subject which matches your DD's needs?

Thank you prh47, that's really helpful too - I will get on to the Admissions Team and get some answers today!

Hi
I'm not sure if this will help but when I went to appeal for a primary school place - yr 5 - they (headteacher and LEA rep) grimaced when I said that yes, giving my son a place would put them over the limit but given that the attendance figures were never above 95% that gave 5% leeway on any given day (can't remember how I worded it exactly). If they have 1500 on role but it is only built for 1160 then they can cope with 1500 - check the attendance figures and if they are 95% say then I'd say in actual fact you only have 1,425 in the school on any given day.

Not sure if that will help at all but at my appeal it seemed to have an effect. Also, check intake for her particular year or class - if it has ever gone above the number that it is at the moment then I would say well you've coped before with 32 in the class and quote the year (I did this too). If they've coped once they can cope again.

Good luck.

just checked in again, thank you Annielouise too - feel like I can make some progress with this as there are quite a few things I wouldnt have thought of. Thank you all

An appeal panel shouldn't take attendance figures into account. If AnnieLouise's did she was lucky.

Yes, it helps if they've coped with more children before. The big problem is that the numbers suggest the school is already bursting at the seams.

You say that there are 8 forms of entry but what is the admission number for the school and what are the numbers in the 6th form?
I actually would be a little surprised if the school was built for 1150 under BSF and now has 1500 in it, because the net capacity includes the 6th form. With a net capacity of 1150 to me that would be a school with 900 in years 7 to 11 (admission number of 180) with 250 in the 6th form. That is a typical new BSF school and average 2/3rds going onto the 6th form. To now have 1500 suggests that the original admission number has increased or that the 6th form is absolutely massive.

I wonder whether there has been any extension work since the original BSF rebuild which may not have included in the net capacity calculation.

I would also keep the original letter thats states that you are wasting your time appealing as the LEA will reject it. That is totally out of order and I would submit a copy of that as part of your evidence to the appeal panel, stating that you found the LAs attitude very off-putting. Whilst it has little actual bearing on the appeal as such, many appeal panel members would rightly be a little miffed that officials of the LA are making such comments and as a well know supermarket says, every little bit helps, when it comes to the appeal hearing.