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Secondary education

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University abroad - experience?

41 replies

SuzieHomemaker · 03/06/2010 17:51

Hi
Looking for any advice or experience here. My DC is thinking about going to university abroad. It's a long way off at the moment.

Do any of you good people have any advice or experience to offer please?

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StewieGriffinsMom · 03/06/2010 17:52

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SuzieHomemaker · 03/06/2010 17:59

Either Holland or France. DC is strong in maths, sciences and languages. As I say it is a long way off yet but would like to know if there is anything extra to consider.

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StewieGriffinsMom · 03/06/2010 18:04

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SuzieHomemaker · 03/06/2010 18:11

Thanks, I'll keep it in mind if destination changes.

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amothersplaceisinthewrong · 03/06/2010 18:15

Get saving!!!! I think the fees are a huge amount more than over here.... unless he can get a scholarship

mummytime · 03/06/2010 18:20

I would go for Holland (or Netherlands) rather than France. I don't know if they help undergraduates but post graduates get help with dutch instruction. I would suggest you investigate thoroughly if you consider France as the education system is quite different, and the superior higher education institutions are the Grande Ecoles.

However if my DS was going to study overseas I would be definitely pushing for the US. I would only go for Europe if the language was important. There are courses where you can spend part of your degree overseas. UCL has some degrees like this, they do tend to be harder to get on than the ones without the overseas experience.

Of course maybe a good gap year in Europe would be a good idea too.

Bonsoir · 03/06/2010 18:26

The UK has some fabulous higher education. Most of the ROW is not up to the same standard.

Do not, under any circumstances, contemplate university in France. Only the grandes écoles (a sort of private higher education) are worth anything on the job market, and they are very hard to access.

frakkit · 03/06/2010 18:27

I can tell you some stuff about France, mostly that the educational system is wildly different!

DH did an English language Political Science programme in the Netherlands and loved it.

Bear in mind they'd probably need to speak the language fluently and be very carefuly on choices at A-level (or do the IB) because French universities laugh when they see the subjects I took at A-level.

How far off is a long way off?

Bonsoir · 03/06/2010 18:30

I live in France and I hope and pray that the DSSs and DD will want to go to university in England or the US.

My bestest French friend, who is über-educated and über-brainy, feels the same way and her eldest child is hoping to go to Oxford. He could walk in to any French HE, as his mother did before him.

Lilymaid · 03/06/2010 18:35

I'd definitely go for the UK university plus Erasmus year at a European university option. There are so many good universities in the UK.

SuzieHomemaker · 03/06/2010 18:42

Hi
Thanks for info. DC is fluent in Dutch (we lived there for several years & DC is keeping up language with a tutor). Fees in NL are significantly lower than UK (which appeals to me!).

It's three years away so there is plenty of time for choices to change.

Frakkit - please can you explain a bit more about subject choices? Do they need to be recognisable to a French admissions tutor?

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Bonsoir · 03/06/2010 18:45

A-levels and the French bac are poles apart in philosophy and in standards achieved. Completely and utterly different.

It is easier and more sensible for French bac holders to do undergraduate studies in the UK than the reverse.

badgerhead · 03/06/2010 19:05

I could do with some info on Uni in the States as dd1 would likeis determined to to to Uni in New York. She is seriously wanting to study Forensic Psychilogy & has opted to do Psychology, Sociology, Philosophy & Ethics plus Photography at AS & onto A Level.
So any help on what she needs to do to achieve her aim would be useful.

AuldAlliance · 03/06/2010 19:26

I am a lecturer in a French university.

Sadly, I'd also have to advise you to steer clear. They haven't been in great shape for many years now, but are currently being systematically, cynically and successfully run into the ground.

Especially avoid languages. I'd say my department (in what was a fairly renowned Arts faculty) has five years before it is pretty much dead.

Bear in mind that almost no one from the French political class has a degree from a university. That should tell you (a) how poorly-regarded they are and (b) how much of a damn the ruling classes give about them (they and their kids never even contemplate attending them).

Bear in mind also that there is basically no selection for entrance to universities here, except in medicine, until 2nd year of Masters courses. If you have studied for a vocational course in carpentry, you can enroll in 1st Yr law. The first two years are therefore spent trying to sort out who is actually in the right place and who isn't, with overstretched staff ("tutorial" = 25-45 students to one teacher) and resources. For good students, it is dismally unstimulating.

SuzieHomemaker · 03/06/2010 19:45

Many thanks AuldAlliance - 'not France then' was DC's response when I read out your message.

Erasmus scheme is interesting but we dont know how long it will last. I saw the date of 2013 somewhere.

I'm reading all replies with interest, thank you. There is very little information available on travelling out rather than travelling in apart from Erasmus scheme.

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whiteflame · 03/06/2010 21:20

why would you push for the US in particular, mummytime (or anyone else)? just interested as i've studied or worked at universities in a few different places, and am interested in people's experiences and perceptions

kolacubes · 03/06/2010 22:02

How easy is it to get into a university in America from the UK, with no sponsor or family in the US?

Is there any difficulties with visa?

My dd in a few years wants to do Aeronautical Engineering, and wondered if that was accessible in US from UK.

mummytime · 04/06/2010 05:03

From my experience it is fairly easy to get a student visa for the US. If you are good enough it is possible to get some kind of student support, and the US is used to students working their way through university. However at least to start with if you are on a student visa you can only get on campus jobs.

I would contact possible universities now to get more information. However there are vast differences between universities (do not necessarily be put off by fees, as the ones with the higher fees tend to have higher student support, if they really want you). American friends of mine for example had part time jobs with a leading chemical company during their degree but the same company wouldn't recruit them afterwards as they were at the "wrong" university.
You may need to sit SATs before getting a place, though this can be sat at various places in the UK.

I'm biased towards US unis because of the breadth of the curriculum and that the best are world class.

However if my kids wanted to study languages I might ask them to consider studying in the appropriate country overseas.

frakkit · 04/06/2010 05:49

I concur SATs are easily sat in the UK and friends who went (and I'm very jealous of some of them!) said the first year was decidedly different because it was more similar to school in the amount of subjects studied than the narrowness of a UK degree. They also thought it was really good prep in what was expected later on and that campus life was fab. Then there's Greek life to consider as well if that appeals!

mathanxiety · 04/06/2010 06:10

This Times article is spot on wrt the American university application process. It also details tests that must be done and outlines the financial aid situation.

All the necessary tests include maths at a high level, so if a UK student is not taking maths for A levels, he or she would need to somehow do a course up to pre cal level at least. In general, west coast universities require the SAT, while the ACT is more an eastern thing. Some universities require both. You would need to check with each individual university before signing up for the testing.

There's a fee for each application, ranging from $50 to $100 iirc. There's also a fee for each test, and each retake, and additional fees for sending the test results to each university you're applying to (under $20 each for this particular one).

The curriculum is extremely broad at undergrad level in the US, from what I'm familiar with anyhow -- again, maths is required for all in freshman year at minimum, plus a science, language, humanities subject, English. Some universities have core curricula that are very broad, even for those pursuing an engineering degree. Generally, you don't have to declare a major until perhaps your third (junior) year. As Mummytime says, there are vast differences among US universities. Thorough research is vital.

You don't get to specialise in something like forensic science until grad level, or maybe your final year, depending on the university. The best route to a career in forensic science is a bachelors degree in chemistry or biology (or major in chem and minor in bio) followed by postgrad specialisation.

skihorse · 04/06/2010 06:53

If only I'd known at 17 that I could apply to EU unis... would've been fun. Ah well, in my next lifetime!

Well I'm living in the south of NL and have had a few friends attend UoM (Maastricht) which has a fairly large international programme including a handful of degrees tutored in English only - although I see that your son is vloeiend!

A friend of mine enrolled in their political science undergrad course and said there was a lot of tutorial based work, what she meant was rather than having lots and lots of lectures which could be skived off - she was actually required to be on campus, in class, debating and discussing ideas for an enormous amount of hours. She felt that this way of teaching was very hard going but that she was learning at a far accelerated pace than earlier courses she'd taken in the US. She did complain of feeling over-worked though!

Dutch student life seems fairly raucous but not out of control. I used to have a ground floor flat with students above. Tbh, they had their big night out on a Thursday night and for the rest of the time were really nice. Don't forget - the Dutch love a good bit of house cleaning so their digs are good and clean! A large proportion of students go home for weekends so there's not the whole getting shitfaced every weekend thing going on. Compared to what I've seen of British students (and remember from uni) the academic side is taken much more seriously and there's a whole lot less slobbing around like The Young Ones!

UoM doesn't appear to make any special arrangements wrt finding overseas students digs - or perhaps that was the story that a girl from Belgium gave her mum as I put her up for a few nights until she found accommodation. Accommodation is not particularly cheap, although I'd dare say cheaper than the UK! A student here would expect to pay a minimum of 230 euros a month for a pretty crappy bedsit and 550 for a nice studio (incl. bills).

Rag week looks pretty fun and I love the academic start of year parades. All freshers parade through town on floats and everyone comes out to watch - it's really nice actually. Bless their little teenage hearts!

If there's any more info I could give you please don't hesitate to ask.

kolacubes · 04/06/2010 08:07

To find what's a good university or not in the US, is there a league table or similar?

I presume Ivy League is equivalent to Oxbridge, so what's the level below that. i.e. still respectable university, but not the creme de la creme.

Is it worth contacting the industries that she wants to go into and seeing what universities they suggest?

StewieGriffinsMom · 04/06/2010 08:34

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JGBMum · 04/06/2010 08:39

DOes anyone have any experience or information on the Canadian University system? DS is looking at Engineering degrees.

Many thanks.

skihorse · 04/06/2010 08:41

University of Waterloo for engineering in canada.