Clash of personalities with teacher

[circular]

DD1 had an easy start in yr7, and was placed in top set for both English & Maths. In general, found everything too easy, and let her written work slip in English. Continually said that one of her two English teachers hated her, but took it with a pinch of salt - she can over exaggerate slightly.
But on meeting said teacher, I could see what DD meant. I was quite shocked that the teacher was consideriing moving DD down a set, even though she could see there was no lack of ability.
When I told DD, she said she would rather go down to set 2 than work with that teacher another year.
As it turned out, she stayed in set 1 for yr8, that teacher took set 2.
At the start of yr8, her new teacher questioned why she ended yr7 on a level 4, when she was clearly wayabove that. She was level 5 ks2, although resultant never sent through from prep school. Her target for eoy is 6c, which we think she would have reached or bettered.so it looks like at best there has been some personality issues that caused the yr7 problems, and at worst as DD says, the teacher simply hates her.

Now coming to the end of yr8, and their teacher has told them there will be about 4 or 5 of them movng down as there are too many brighter pupils in set 2.
Don't know yet if DD will be one of those moving down, but likely to question it if she is. Also don't yet know which set her last years teacher is taking. DD has said she will insist on moving down if said teacher is taking set 1

The worse case scenario would be foe her to moownsown to set 2 AND have that teacher. DD
is adamant that if this did happen, that teacher would do her best to spoil her GCSE chances by putting her down at the end of year 9.
There's also the issue that only the top sets get to do triple science, which she needs to do. And she would need at least a B in English to get into a decent uni. Which would not be possible if this teacher fixes it so she has to sit the lower paper.
All her other teachers say she is on track to get at
least A's.
Sorry this has been a bit of a rant, but we are genuinely worried of the damAge this one teacher could do.

OK - get the levels now.
Said " grade" when I meant sub-level and read a level a year Instead of two years.

Hi Goblinchild, you commented:

Children are on average supposed to make a full level progress over two years. Above average are expected to do better than that.

I've seen this with DS and find it concerning, this seeming prescriptiveness. Teacher has decided DS is above average in one area so his target for the end of year is much higher in this respect. He is being pushed steadily towards this target as he is apparently 'above average'. In other areas he's on target and where he needs to be and expectations are lower and also seem (subconsciously?) lower. Guess what I predict will happen at the end of year? In my view his ability is actually no greater in one area or another.

Hopefully it won't matter in the longer run and make no odds due to ongoing teacher assessments etc. It's just the view that 'above average are expected to do better' concerns me, as others have said on this thread small dips and spurts etc tend to be the rule rather than the exception.

Cortina, it's just about having high expectations for everyone, not letting your able students cruise or get bored by not offering them material and ideas that push their thinking forwards.
Not letting your strugglers fail because 'They can't manage any more, Bless'
It shouldn't be prescriptive, restrictive or a self-fulfilling prophecy in any way.

Her first actual levels midway term 1 in yr 7, before being set for English and Maths were 4b,5b,5c. (E,M,S). Eoy targets 5c,5a,6c. So maybe she should never have been in set 1 for English to start with.
By term 2 she was up a level in each.
Can't find yr7 term 3 or yr8 term 1 levels, but can onely assume her Englisg remained 4a.

Yr8 term 2 levels are 5a,6a,6b with targets of 6c,6a,6a. IIRC, the English target was increased as she reached it early.

They hardly seem to get any homework in ANY subject. Half of the yr7 homework was drawing posters. She still says everything (except creative writing) is easy.
Her form teacher (same throughout) always sins her praises. HOY also thinks highly of her.

I get the impression from this thread, that I should not be expecting her to get A's, but most of her teachers are. So presumably she is thought of as a high acheiver, in which case why are her targets not being stretched more?

I think I would have more general concerns about the school your DD is at - My DS is in year 8 and he certainly gets plenty of homework. His school don't set for English and the work is certainly challenging and interesting. At the moment they are doing a poetry module and are looking at song lyrics that could be described as poems, it can't be too easy because everyone does it at their own level. This is the case with all the work covered whether analysing an extract of a Shakespeare play or reading a book and then writing a diary as if you were the main character.

DS went in at level 5 and is now working at a 7c. His English teacher said they would be looking at him being a level 8 by the end of year 9. Both his sisters were level 7 and they did get A's and A*'s in the English exams but DS has more of a flair for the subject. I wouldn't say that you shouldn't be expecting your DD to get A's but I would worry that she is making enough progress in English and would want to have an idea how she was being taught because I don't recognise it as the sort of English teaching my DCs have had.

OP - you NEED to contact the school, make an appointment and go in to speak to your DD's form tutor or the head of English. With the best will in the world, no one here knows enough to be able to tell you what your DD should be achieving. You seem very wrapped up in the levels, but don't really seem to understand that they are NOT a GUARANTEE of achievement. You need to go to the school, and ask them the questions you are posing here. You need to get someone to explain the way that National Curriculum levels work, to show you how your DD is progressing, and to show you how they expect her to progress between now and the end of KS3.

In your last post you said
"I get the impression from this thread, that I should not be expecting her to get A's, but most of her teachers are. So presumably she is thought of as a high acheiver, in which case why are her targets not being stretched more?"
That is what you must ask the school. But remember - she's only Yr 8. Children develop at different rates, and Yr 8 grades CANNOT be used as a way to accurately predict GCSE grades - any prediction is just a guide.

As for the homework thing, again, ask the school. If I had a pound for every parent I've seen in my career so far, who claims that their DCs aren't getting enough homework/any homework, when actually it's a case of DCs not recording homework or not bothering to do it, I could retire tomorrow. And there's little point checking with DD's friends either - plenty of students don't bother to write it down, forget it, or just plain choose not to do it.

You are asking the right questions, but IMO, in the wrong place. If you want answers, go to the school.

circular Thu 27-May-10 08:31:43

"I get the impression from this thread, that I should not be expecting her to get A's, but most of her teachers are. So presumably she is thought of as a high acheiver, in which case why are her targets not being stretched more?"

But in creative writing, which seems to be her weak area, presumbably she is taught the same things as the other children in top set, so surely it is up to her if she then takes the trouble to apply those things to her writing? She is getting to an age where she needs to take more responsibility for her own studies.

My own dd, who is also in Yr 8, has just brought home results which we both know are far below her actual ability (though respectable enough in a wider context). There is no doubt that this is due to circumstances beyond her control- chronic ill health, disability and, in addition, mental health problems caused by ill treatment at junior school (including being left completely without tuition in a core subject because of lack of disabled access). She could well be spending her time feeling hard done by. Instead, she seems very well aware that it is her responsibility to find out what she has missed and where she is falling short of what will be required for the kind of GCSE grades she wants. It's not about some teacher challenging her, it's about her actually doing the work. Blaming other people isn't actually going to get her into uni and I have tried to make that clear to her.

Cory

DD is not blaming her yr 7 teacher for poor grades. Her issue is that it would be detrimental to her future grades to work with that teacher again, even if it meant moving down a set to avoid this. She is not normally rebellious on school issues, so we are taking it seriously.
She is naturally bright in everything, but creative writing is her weakest area and we need to address this, although we recognise that some skills just cannot be taught. She knows this and does not blame anyone else.

Sorry to hear of your own DDs' health problems and glad she is overcoming them. She is obviously very mature for her age. At 12/13 there is a big difference in maturity range across the class. My DD is one of the youngest, and has always been badly organised, although this has improved in the last couple of years. But thats a separate issue.

EvilTwins

I have spoken to the form teacher several times re the homework and am always told there is not much being set and there will be more next year. Also, we would be told if DD was not handing hers in.
I've told DD she needs to take advantage of the unexpected spare time and push on with her music theory.

I am not wrapped up in the levels - I just find it intersting to see how different schools interpret them.

Rushed last reply as needed to leave for work. So expect typos as using mobile.
Understanding from school that levels fluctuate depending on topics being taught. So can appear to be remaining the same as new/ more difficult topics get introduced. Also, some schools will never teach beyond/ give above a set level for the year.
English teacher confirmed she is in correct set and staying there, good grades for set 1. Creative writing her weakest area, tutoring may help.
Still don't know who the teacher will be next year though, but it changes every year.
Told DD if it is 'that' teacher we will discuss with school.

Fingers crossed that she doesn't get "that" teacher next year!

In the meantime, I might feel tempted to remind her that she has had a full year to pull herself up and that anything that has happened this year is her own lookout.

Your post wasn't quite clear on whether you thought having had a bad teacher in the past was still to blame for her performance this year- that was the bit I wouldn't agree with, and would not let her think I agreed with. She is old enough to start thinking in terms of a career: next year, she will be choosing her options.

But will keep fingers crossed for you!

Juat wanted to touch back on this again.

Fortunately, DD did not get 'that' teacher again. She appears fine with the teachers she has, and says she is finding writing easier now.

Unfortunately, she is still around 5a/6c in English. (Although we took the levels on her last terms progrss report with a pinch of salt as most were set before any assessment). School are NOT saying this is a problem, and no noises about changes in sets.

We are still concerned that her English is not good enough to get a decent GCSE grade.
Obviously this term will be heavily involved with option choices. Therefore would rather not raise the English issue with the school, apart from seeing the English teachers at Parents Evening which is in March.

We have spoke about it, and DD is also concerned. She would be happy to have a tutor - initially to assess where she is really at, and then to help pull her up where necessary.
So how best to go about finding a good English tutor, please? Unlikely to get anyone on recommendation, as do not know of anyone else that uses one.

It's a shame that you appear to have an issue to deal with, but your DD won't be able to put 'I had a personality clash with my English teacher' on her UCAS form. She needs to learn to work in spite of these things.

Sorry OP, didn't see your most recent post. There have been a few threads on tutors lately - if you search you might find some useful information :)

As an experienced English teacher, looking at this case, I assume:
a) your daughter has regressed as she is being lazy - the Assessment Focuses for punctuation, paragraphing and syntax are essential/binding ones for deciding a student's level
b) Your daughter is the generation of children between two assessment systems. KS2 = SATS (overgenerous at the best of times) and KS3 = APP (can be rigid and a little mean when first introduced)

I take your implied point that an inspiring teacher will motivate a child to achieve greater levels but I also think children need to motivate themselves. In my experience and with the greatest of respect, I find middle class children with very supportive parents CAN SOMETIMES lack motivation as they anticipate and expect to be bailed out.

emilie - missed your reply previously.

She may have been lazy in year 7 and had the wrong attitude with a teacher she clashed with. But since then she has had 1.5 years with teachers she has liked.
When I saw her yr8 teacher, she said DD was working well. I questioned her levels (5a) but was told that was 'good for set 1'.

My concerns NOW are :

1. She may have made little or no progress in English at this school
2. The standards of English at the school if 5a in yr8 really is good for set 1. [Or has she just been kept there because of pathways, as I made a lot of noise about the triple science in year 8]
3. Getting an indpendent assessment to see where she is really at.

I understand what you say re the KS2 SATS, but her Maths and Science have progressed as expected based on these.

Not yet met current English teachers - yr9 parents evening (mid-Feb).

Hi Pixie. I've been deliberately putting off contacting the school this year in case it effects her option pathways.
DD has since jumped the gun and approached the teacher herself saying she is worried about her progress. The teacher told her she is working well, keeping up with the work in top set and probably just had a bad day on the assessment. So no set movement, hopefully in top pathway.
But still don't feel we have got to the bottom of what's going wrong and how best to fix it.

I'm still trying to find a tutor!

'Her issue is that it would be detrimental to her future grades to work with that teacher again, even if it meant moving down a set to avoid this.' It sounds to me (having read all of the thread) that your DD has come across a teacher who doesn't take prisoners or excuses and has seen through her. Your DD's grades as has been pointed out are down to her. If my 15 yo ds comes home and manks about a teacher, he is told to get his finger out, engage with the subject and learn to work with people he doesn't get on with, as it is a valuable life lesson.

Your DD may well be working at the top of her ability in English; there is a huge difference between the KS2 levels and those at secondary. An illustration of this would be the lad in my year 7 tutor group, who had a 5a in science at KS2, but who could neither read nor write. It was not unusual for a child to have a 5a in English at KS2 and get a 3c for their first assessment in my subject area.

The thing I looked at as a humanities teacher was the GLA. That gave me lots of information about how a child would cope in my subject area.

You say that she is finding writing easier now - what do you mean by this? Does she have difficulties with the handwriting, or the spelling or is it something else?

scaryteacher - excuse my ignorance but what's the GLA ?

There's never neen an issue with her reading ability. At 9 or 10 she had to ask for a youn adu;ts library ticket as she found the childrens books boring.
She reads very little in the way of books now, which is a shame. Mainly because she can never find any books that interest her. She quites likes to read newspapers though, so at least is reading something.

No problem with the other humanities subjects or languages. G&T for Geography.

bigTillyMint - easier in getting things in her head down on paper. Her brain has always worked much faster than she could write it down. Loves learning new things, gets bored easily. Good at teaching herself new skills.

Handwrriting not been an issue since age 7. Spelling always been good.

"she can never find any books that interest her"? you can't let that go unchallenged, surely! Tired of books, tired of life!