Who knows best?

[earthamogg]

Can anyone offer insight? We have somehow got into a situation where ds has place at superselective grammar in our town but wants to go to the "ordinary" grammar very near us. We made the initial choice in the face of a deadline, but later we went on the waiting list for the nearer school, thinking if a place came upwhich it now has!we would be clearer in our minds by then. We are now paralysed by indecision, despite studying Ofsteds and stats,and making return visits, and talking to everyone we know. We, his parents, like both of the schools (like Harry Hill!) but prefer the superselective. It has fab facilities and the students seem confident and happy.The other school is very good and innovative too and we like it but it has cramped, deteriorating premises. We think ds would have fantastic teenage years at our first choice. He clings to the nearer one, but his reasons are a bit vague. None of his schoolfriends is going to either of these schools, but in his first choice he will be nearer to them (and home) and I think this may be an issue. But he says he likes the atmosphere better in his choice. We need to decide, and free up a place for someone! It comes down to: who should have the final say?

If there is no academic reason and it's now down to 'feeling at home' I'd let my child decide because they are the one going there.

I suspect a parent is always going to feel better about their child getting into a super selective.

My daughter goes to a completely run down school in terms of premises but she absolutely loves it and is thriving.

In your situation, I think I would go with the one that your son prefers - he is more likely to work at this school and could just sulk at the other if you insist on him going to your choice.

Maybe he doesn't feel up to the challenge of the superselective, despite his abilities. Have you made it known to him about your preference and the reasons why? He might just be having a confidence wobble. Both of you should write down the pros and cons of both schools and let him choose

If possible get him to go and visit both (including having a bathroom break). And then go with his gut feeling. (Unless he comes back with a really bad reason for his preference.) Boys at this age can find it hard to express their feelings, and reasoning.

Thanks very much for this advice, everyone. My problem is that, although I love the idea of relying on gut feelings, I often find it hard to even know what my own gut feelings are about things, so it's difficult for me to rely on the validity of someone else's. Every time I think "there's not much in it, so let him decide" a bit of me comes back with "but you're abdicating your responsiblity".
I think if ds was a bit older I'd think "let go", but to me he still seems a little young. DP and I seem to be waiting for him to give some clincher of a reason that we can feel is weighty enough; but Mummytime is right: he feels uncomfortable talking about it for very long. I end up feeling that we are browbeating him!
However, reading all your sensible comments, I feel quite a lot calmer about the idea of going with his preference. Many thanks.

Bear in mind, he may not stay friends with his current ones who are not going to either of the GS.

He may do, but will probably make a whole set of new ones (there will be many children starting the superselective GS who are the only one from their primary school and so new friendship groups are the norm).

My DCs are/were at a superselective GS and it is not the competitive hothouse those whose children don't go there would have everyone else believe! (I wonder if we are in the same area, also have other local GSs with more 'run down' buildings...is the s.selective mixed?? I don't want to give away the schools involved!!). He needn't be feeling stressed about not being good enough or anything. They are all a much of a muchness in terms of academic ability (although of course some girlswork a lot harder than the boys others).

Personally, I would go with what I think is best, rather than my children!!! I feel they do not really know what they want at 11 (why would they really??) and we probably know more of what it all entails than they do.

The one with the fab facilities and confident, happy students

deteriorating premises and cramped not a good sign even if education is good despite this

it is your decision not child's - he'll get used to it

I am wondering if you live near me too earthamogg!
Ds looked at a superselective and hated it - despite good premises and facilities and a stellar reputation. We took the coward's way out by putting it after the "ordinary" grammar we all preferred, so didn't face your dilemma - he got straight in.
Will the Head of your primary school be able to advise you both?

The reasons I would listen to my DC are: a) my mother didn't tell me about the C of E school which my primary school headmaster recommended (partly because of her bad experiences at Grammar), which I hae always regretted and am sure I would have one better there, and couldn't have been more bullied. B) My son really didn't want to go to the school we initially got a place for, he couldn't tell us why, six months later after he'd got a place at the school we all preferred he told me that he really didn't want to go to the first school because of one other boy (who was a bully).
However I have also watched other children go to the school they preferred which hasn't necessarily been the best for them, but then would they have done any better at the school their parents preferred. I have also known people transfer children to less "desirable" schools where their children have flourished.

So it is a very hard decision.

We would (and did) leave the decision to our DCs, but I think it?s reasonable to expect them to come up with sensible, well-thought out reasons for their choices ? if they can?t do that, they can?t really complain if we make the decision for them

I do agree with loungelizard, though, that super-selectives aren?t always the hot house some people assume they are. DS attends one and loves it ? gets plenty of sport, DofE, school trips and other extra-curricular activities. There also seems to be loads of music and drama for those who are that way inclined.

MY DSs go to an 'ordinary' grammar (by that I am guessing you mean one with a catchment area) but it actually out-performs a lot of the 'super-selectives by the time they get to A level.

Also bear in mind that the students they wheel out on open days are unlikely to be the 'odd' ones or the self-harmers who can't cope with the pressure !

Did you have to really push him to get a place at the super selective school, was he tutored etc.? If he was, maybe he is worried he will be able to keep up. If not, he should settle in well.

Remember some interesting research a few years ago which showed that children who just got into grammars did just as well as the majority over time, so don't think he should worry.

Crumbs, thanks everyone! Just checked in on your thoughts after hectic few days. In answer to LadyLapsang, we didn't have DS tutored, though he did a bit of Kumon for a while in year 5 and then we went through papers with him for a few months; he would have had no idea of the maths otherwise as they were not covering it at his primary. I was not expecting him to get the marks for the superselective, or even necessarily to pass, given what he said afterwards, so that put the cat among the pigeons a bit.
You've all given me even more food for thought, . I certainly don't want hothousing, though DS needs a bit of a wake-up call,let's put it that way! I think academically both options would be fine; my main reason for loving the superselective (even more since we've been back there) is that it has that intangible atmosphereI don;t know what to call itbut it looks like it would be such a fun place to spend your teenage years; and I really want him to have a great adolescence. He's too "ten" to see it that way now, I suspect.
The superselective isn't mixed, Loungelizard, except for the sixth form, so I don't know whether I could be near you or MinaTannenbaum! I may have been a bit unfair saying the "ordinary" one's premises are deteriorating, as they are working very hard to fundraise and refurbish labs etc. but I can see they are short of space and Government funding for the work they need.
I really appreciate all the input everyone!Time to grasp the nettle and decide. Watch this space...