AS Level Further Maths - FP1 before C3?

[JGBMum]

DS is in Y12 and taking Maths and FM to AS in June, then A2 next year.
This is the first year the school has offered FM to A2, previously they have only offered it to AS which is taken in Y13.

In conversation last night, we were told it was very unusual to study FP1 before C3 (core Maths) as maths learned in C3 is needed to understand FP1. DS will not study C3 till next year.

Does anyone know, is this correct? Do you have any expereince of sitting an FP1 module before studying the C3 material? All advice very gratefully received.

I haven't taught this stuff for years (mat leave and have turned into a mechanics teacher) but it seems odd - you would need to c3 calc and trig to study the fp units, surely?

Bella - thanks for response. I have no idea what would be needed, hence my panic. My concern is that the school may have "forgotten" that the y12 students havent covered this stuff?
Can the Calc and Trig be taught separately? Or do they build on from other work?

My son did the full Maths A-level in L6 and is doing the full Further Maths A-level in U6. It seems to be something that works well in his school.

DD1 has just read this and said "how bizarre, the FM teacher is going ot have to spend ages goign over all the C3 and C4 stuff they'll need to know before they can do FP1." She reckons you/your DS needs to get it clarified with the school ASAP.

Like MmeBluberry our school does the full A level in Y12 then FM in Y13.

Thanks for replies everyone - I guess I need to talk to the school aap

My DD is doing it this way round - she is doing Maths and Further Maths side by side. She took C1 and M1 in Jan and will take C2,S1, FP1 and M2 in the summer. She hasn't had any problems with FP1 and in fact finds it quite straight forward certainly much easier than M1. The A levels are designed so that they can be taken together although many schools teach them one after the other. The kids taking Further Maths usually get high grades so it is obviously not a problem.

Here's the answer from the Further Maths Network.

Question: Is it possible to complete an AS-level in Further Mathematics in year 12?

Answer: YES! The awarding bodies have revised their AS-level Further Mathematics specifications to remove dependencies on the A2 aspects of the standard A-level Mathematics. Students can study and complete three modules and be awarded AS-level Further Mathematics in year 12, along side their standard AS-level Mathematics.

FP1 is sat before C2 and C3 at dcs school. It's designed as an AS module that can be sat before them these days.

I did FP1 slightly before C3 I think - in 2006 - and from what I remember FP1 is really just a mishmash of little topics that don't fit in to the Core modules. I loved it. I don't think I needed any C3 knowledge at all.

either way I'm sure the FP1 book would have all the necessary info/examples

The further mathematicians do something like:
Jan yr12: C1
Jun yr12: S1,M1,FP1,C2
Jan yr13: C3,C4,S2,M2 (this completes maths A level and f.m. AS level)
Jun yr13: FP2,FP3,D1 (completes f.m. A2)

THANK YOU!

This whole business is becoming more stressful as we move through the year - not helped by DSs school losing one A level teacher so combining 2 classes to make one huge class!

See, I told you it had been a while since I did this! I'm glad more informed people came along for you

But Bella I really appreciated your quick response, and you were supported in what you said by others.
I think this is where mn is so good, people do come on and give you the benefit of their experience and that's what I was looking for, so thank you.

Just asked DS - he grunted said that the only restriction is that you can't do the '2' modules before the '1' modules. He thinks they are all fairly independent.

Clearly, the courses are designed to be done side by side. His school does them separately in L6 and U6, but there is a risk that if you can't hack FM, you have a big gap in U6, unless you can find a L6 course to fill your timetable.

We have found that doing the full maths A2 in L6 has really paid off with UCAS applications. Having an A2 in your application is a real bonus, especially a respected one like maths. Universities only really look at 'cashed in' qualifications, which means GCSEs and the subject you dropped after AS. Having a real A2 sends you to the top of the pile.

Interesting post Mme Blueberry, thanks for the info

I guess thousands of applicants won't have A2s when they apply to UCAS, but I'm sure many still get fab places. At the end of the day, we can only work within the limits of the school so DS will not have any A2s in September but will hopefully have a great crop of AS results.

Cambridge have told us that they ask for the marks on all modules to date, and I guess other Uni's will want similar info? So he will have taken 5 maths modules at that point and will have those results to show.

My DS is going to UCL - a top world university - and they seemed to have offered him based on his GCSEs (8A and 2A) and 3 AS (Chemistry, French and Philosophy) and his A2 ( Maths - A - old specification). His reference must have been good. He did nothing externally to contribute to his application, although his personal statement read well, and he had an interview which consisted of doing a half-hour maths problem. His offer is B in Physics and a B in Further Maths, and we are anticipating an A in Physics and a A/A in FM.

We see him as having a really easy offer - BB. We certainly aren't witnessing anything of the gloomy news headlines about university entrance.

It does sound a great offer MmeBlueberry, but then he had great GSCEs and AS/A2 results. Did he try for Oxbridge or did he prefer UCL?

JGBMum, just because my ds will have only done 5 modules at the end of yr12 does't necessarily mean yours will do the same - I gave that list as an example of how our school does the modules, there are lots of variations and many schools do 6 modules each year. I think the advantage of sitting the modules later is that you are more likely to do well at them when you are more advanced, but the disadvantage is that you don't complete as many qualifications before UCAS.

Well done to your ds MmeBlueberry. If he scored 90% or more average across C3 and C4 he should re-certificate his maths next year to get the A. (I think you can still do this even if you cashed in early). Maths is rather unique in that sense, because they've not changed the syllabus for the A so it's still possible to get as long as you certificate next summer.

He didn't apply to Oxbridge. He is doing Engineering and Oxbridge isn't the best place to go. Neither DH nor I are English and don't have a love affair with Oxbridge, tbh.

Snorkle, I'm not sure what is happening exactly, but he is resitting his Maths modules, even those he got over 90% of the UMS last year in the A2 modules. I guess it is not doing him any harm and is keeping his brain exercised.

His school policy is pretty much to do modules in January of L6 and U6, but to then do the whole lot in June of the A2 year. He is going to be busy this June, but I suppose it is a bit like turning the clock back 20 years.

Snorkie - he will have C1, C2, D1, FP1, M1 & S1 by August. Obviously these will be spread across both Maths and FM. Acxtually, that's 6 isnt it? So how did you guess he doesnt get his maths ability from me

Everyone seems to do them in a slightly different order & have different retake policies too. It's all quite confusing.

I think there are more than 6 modules available to choose from. For example, My DS isn't doing D1, so must be doing something else in its place.

There are lots, according to what board you do: M3, M4, S3, S4 and D2 spring to mind. I think one board has an FP4 as well. Many of them can apply to either maths or further maths, so the way they are spread across the two is done very carefully to optimise your grades at both.

If you are a mad keen mathematician you can do 6 more modules (ie 18 in total) and get another maths A level.