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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

If anyone is still 'sitting' on a senior school place for Sept....

36 replies

Whippet · 18/03/2010 12:39

....please don't .

I know someone locally whose daughter is in a private prep currently, and is 99.9% likely to continue on into the senior school (and has been offered a place)

HOWEVER

her parents applied to the (very good) local state school 'just in case' and were offered a place which they duly accepted.

They are apparently intending to 'keep it' until summer just in case one of their jobs is suddenly at risk (there's no known threat of this at the moment), or in case they 'decide to change their mind' .

Tossers. I can't believe they are being so selfish, when there are people considering moving/ remortgaging/ and generally going through heartache because they haven't got local school places...

However it does highlight why it's worth hanging on in there on waiting lists etc - I bet they are not the only people doing this .

OP posts:

SoupDragon · 18/03/2010 12:40

Why shouldn't they? It makes perfect sense.

Original poster

Whippet · 18/03/2010 12:45

Because they really have no intention of sending her there...

Initially it was in case she didn't get into the senior part of her current school, and thath's absolutely fair enough... but now they know she has a place there they have accepted that. So they have accepted two places and are holding onto the state one until the very last possible minute 'just in case' some unforeseen random event occurs...

I know they are entirely within their rights to do this, but it's rather selfish, no?

OP posts:

Ivykaty44 · 18/03/2010 12:46

I am sitting on a place of a very good secondary school that is over siubscribed by 100 places - I want my dd to go to another state school which I think will suit her better and I know she is top of the list, I know she will be offered a place at the school I want as they are undersubscribed

i have phoned and asked and said - well shall I accept this place now so that you can put someone out of there misery - oh no was the reply make them wait......

NoahAndTheWhale · 18/03/2010 12:48

I agree that she should keep hold of the place. We are hopefully going to be moving house by September but I will keeping hold of the place at DS's school and DD's reception place (that I am very sure she will get) until we know that everything will work out.

Original poster

Whippet · 18/03/2010 12:54

But Ivy & Noah - in your cases there are genuine reasons why you are holding onto places - because there is a chnage coming along, or because you're still aiming to get into your first choice school.

This family have got, and accepted, a place at their 'first' choice (private) school. They have admitted that there is nothing on the horizon which would likely make them change their mind, but they're going to hang onto the state school place until the very last minute...

When you look at how things 'settle down' at schools my the end of the year, there is a huge amount of 'shuffling' goes on between August and December as waiting lists suddenly open up and people finally get their 1st and 2nd choices, and it's all because people are doing this sort of thing.

It's just silly and selfish .

OP posts:

Ivykaty44 · 18/03/2010 13:30

no I have got my first school - I wnat my second choice on the list...

SoupDragon · 18/03/2010 13:35

[shrug]

I can't get too worked up about it. It is sensible for them to hold onto the place if they feel there could be a chance they won't send her to the private school. Unless you are them, you can't possibly know for certain what their situation is. Not silly or selfish at all, nor are they "tossers".

SoupDragon · 18/03/2010 13:36

The only people who are selfish, silly and "tossers" are those who lie to get their child a place at a school.

mamatomany · 18/03/2010 13:43

Rubbish, in the current climate they sound very sensible.

Our next door neighbour found out she had her first choice school on the 2nd September and he started on the 3rd, no harm done.
The idiots are the ones remortgaging/moving it would be cheaper to go private in many cases.

Original poster

Whippet · 18/03/2010 13:48

I know their situation very well actually, as
a) they are relatives
b) they have been very open (and some might say verging on smug?) about the fact that they are just hanging onto the space 'for the hell of it' because they can.

You just have to read some of the tears and anguish on other parts of this forum to see how upset and stressed some families are as they wait to see if their child is going to get into a school within a 10 mile radius of home... so yes, selfish, to deprive someone of something which you have no intention of using, when you could so easily shorten the torment for someone.

OP posts:

SoupDragon · 18/03/2010 15:59

"Realises Soupdragon is probably doing the same."

Er, no. I'm not actually. As it happens I turned down DS1's place at the heavily over subscribed local secondary but I don't see any problem had I not done so.

They aren't depriving anyone of a place because the place will, most likely, become available.

Reserve your anger for those who cheat and lie to get a place they are not entitled to.

SoupDragon · 18/03/2010 16:00

Interesting that you assume that, because I disagree with you, I must be doing the thing you apparently abhor.

Cette · 18/03/2010 16:08

Whippet, I am with you 100%. I think its totally immoral to be 'holding' onto a place you have no intention of taking up. The parents on the waiting list are in anguish all summer, preparing their children for one school and buying the uniform etc, only to be told on the 1st of september that they get their first school all along. Some people just have no empathy for others. Its entirely selfish.

I work for an admissions authority in London, and I abhore this behaviour. If we find out about any child who holds more than one offer of a school place, they get a 'polite' letter telling them they have 5days to confirm which place they will be taking up, or the state school place will be automatically withdrawn.

I completely understand your anger at them, it makes me mad too!!

GrungeBlobPrimpants · 18/03/2010 16:14

I'm with you Whippet.

My eldest was on receiving end of this. She and a couple of others finally got a place at good school at last minute because of this.

Yes it all worked out in end but in meantime:

Paid out for residential weekend at original school, by this lte date could not reclaim the money. Good job the offer arrived the day before I bought her uniform
missed all induction
and what a great spring and summer she had. All her friends talking excitedly about their fab schools whilst she was going to St Plebs. Bloody great that was

LynetteScavo · 18/03/2010 16:17

I agree with you Whippet.

I know someone who did it with her child's reception place. But in her case she was just too damn lazy to pick up the phone and tell them her son was going private. In fact, I'm not quite sure why she had applied to the local state school at all.

Threre are people sitting with their fingers cross, with baited breath as we speak, waiting for a place to come up, who can't move or remortgage. I'm sooo glad I'm not one of those poor parents.

LynetteScavo · 18/03/2010 16:18

The induction can be very, very important to some children. I feel for those who miss it for what ever reason.

LoveRoses · 18/03/2010 16:30

I also agree with SoupDragon, Mamatomany and Ivykaty44 and see nothing wrong with that.

The parents are perfectly within their "rights" to do so and are simply exercising / demonstrating the fact that they have a "choice" in this instance.

If they do decide against sending their dc to the state school, the next child up there on the waiting list gets the place eventually - so no harm done.

IMO, they sound like wise parents as they're leaving their options open. No harm done as long as they didn't lie/cheat to get the place.

GrungeBlobPrimpants · 18/03/2010 16:46

LoveRoses - of course they're entitled to apply (seems sensible) and hold hilst making decision. For some there is a genuine uncertainty (I think in Ivy's situation) which is also sensible.

Whippet is talking about those who have absolutely no intention of ever taking up the state place. I knew someone at my dc's primary who did this very blatantly - she'd tutored for private since year 4 and there was never any question of her going anywhere else.

Re. 'no harm done' - see my post above. Long term, possibly not, short term - oh yes we had a fab 6 months thanks v much

Cette · 18/03/2010 16:48

LoveRoses, I think you will find they are not within their 'rights' to do that! The DCSF advises every single local authority to put in their information a section about when the local authority has a right to withdraw a child's school place. It quite clearly states that as soon as it is discovered a parent is holding two offers, the local authority can withdraw their offer immediately. Each child should have ONE school offer. Its fair. Your 'no harm done' arguement completely ignores the fact that there are 11 year old children in tears all summer because they can't go to school with their friends. Its all about simple empathy for other children - if it was you who was kept waiting until the 1st september on the top of a waiting list for some selfish parent to hand back their place, I have no doubt you would be angry too!

Whippet - if it bothers you that much, write an anonymous letter to the Local Authority giving the name of the private school where the parents have accepted the place. A simple phonecall to that school by the LA will confirm that they have accepted the place there also, and their state school place will be withdrawn and offered to the next person on the waiting list - who i have no doubt would be very grateful they were not kept in limbo for months!!

LIZS · 18/03/2010 17:10

Sorry I also don't get it. We actually didn't apply (or even receive a pack to do so) when ds was in year 6 as he had the option to stay for another 2 years, by which time state school is effectivley ruled out. However when we applied for a year3 place for him and Recpetion palce for dd we were living abroad and were uncertain as to whether the private school would suit them both, until a visit in the May. So we held onto those state school places until then. Every child is entitled to a state school place and why not hedge your bets if you are not 100% sure. Agree it is the liars who are a more significant problem.

LIZS · 18/03/2010 17:16

Presumably they'll have to decide at Easter anyway to give a term's notice to independent school or otherwise be liable for a term's fees in lieu if they go down the state route.

CockShore · 18/03/2010 17:16

I think the parents have done nothing wrong by holding on to the state school place.

They obviously have a reason that they need to hold onto it. maybe financially they are weighing up the odds of another 7 years private versus a good state place.

They are not holding onto 2 places. One is in the independent sector.

We shall be doing exactly the same next year. i.e deciding whether to take up a private or state place very much nearer to the start date.

LoveRoses · 18/03/2010 17:22

Cette, of course I do empathise with the 11 year olds who haven't got the school of their choice - but as I mentioned earlier I still see nothing wrong with parents holding on to their place as a safeguard against any unforseeables. That is my opinion and I'm perfectly entitled to it!

On the issue of morality - The world would be a much better place if everyone was open and honest - but sadly, that isn't the case.

Fact is, no condition is permanent - and as the OP mentions, the parents are keeping their options open in case one of their jobs is as risk.

You can't blame parents for holding on to a good thing (re: good state schools). Bottom line is: If the government cares enough to make the standard of every school high, then there would wouldn't be issues of over subscription / parents scrambling for the few good schools left!

admission · 18/03/2010 17:57

Cette,
Whilst I agree with your sentiments, you are not correct they do not have two places, they have one place in the state sector. As such to remove that place would be illegal of the admission authority unless there was fraud involved. There is no fraud in the situation that they expect the child to go to a private school.

So whilst they are being very selfish in not releasing the place, they are in my opinion within their rights.

LynetteScavo · 18/03/2010 17:57

The parents have done nothing wrong legally, they are quite within their rights to cling on to the school place untill the very last minute... even into the state school autumn term.

But morally I think it's wrong.

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