Has anyone succeeded in persuading school to change GCSE options offered? And how much does private schooling cost?

[diydemon]

It was the Yr 9 options evening last night - the first time they'd dared to reveal the options columns to parents and pupils.

And our misgivings were confirmed - they've broadened the range of subjects to include lots more BTECs including media studies, hair and beauty, sociology.

As well as the core subjects, dd has to choose one from each of 5 columns.

4 choices are ok (ish), but there's nothing in the 5th column she wants to do - the choice is:
-Triple science (she will definitely do double, but she doesn't want triple after seeing her sister struggle with it, also the school has been told to improve science and maths teaching)
-AS level music (she'd need grade 5, only has grade 3 and stopped playing in primary school and doesn't really want to pick it up again),

• Or a load of what we (and she) consider to be Mickey Mouse subjects - non-academic (BTEC) ones where she has no interest and would likely be in with a bunch of disruptive kids.

Ideally, if they could move Art GCSE from the column where it clashes with History (she'd love to do both), or allow her to study Art externally (we'd arrange that and pay) and sit in the back of the art class and get on with work for that while others are doing their 5th column options, she'd be happy, problem solved.

But the headteacher is adamant she has to choose a 5th column option, and that the options columns are a fait accompli not a consultation document.

She doesn't really want to move schools - very happy there with good friends - but this seems the only option if she wants to do the subjects she'd like.

Has anyone had any luck in persuading a school to be more flexible? How did you do it? Or did you come up with an alternative arrangement?

Finally, how much does private day school cost on average? I'm seriously contemplating looking into taking her out of state sector because of the political interference that is forcing them to offer so many non-academic subjects - it might suit those who are non-academic, but imo is penalising the academic ones.

Ah, it is in the 1994 Group

Sociology and Law go very well together. In fact many universities offer a BA in Law and Social Sciences as well as LLB Law. It really isn't a 'mickey mouse' subject at all.

Just to clarify - many Universities did the BA Law/Social Sciences 15 yrs ago (in my time!), not sure about now....

Your DD is being offered Additional Science for the first year of GCSE?

Twirl, sociology and law at GCSE are not well regarded.

Noah,

Russell and 1994 universities are the traditional universities, so used as a benchmark for old fogies like me.

The important thing for a student making GCSE choices is that they don't close any doors at age 13. A lot of 13 year olds have very lofty goals and they need to be guided into making strategic choices. If they want to enter one of the major professions, they will not do it with a string of Cs.

There is nothing wrong with ex-polys, but bright students, like the OP's, need to aim higher if they are to reach their full potential.

Sociology GCSE fit in with law? Do me a favour.

Hilarious.

I think there is a dumbing down of GCSE options across the board. Lets get the target grades, regardless of the subjects and future of the kids.

can not help but it seems strange to me that art and history clash... as they seem complementary.

Clashes of major subjects like art and history is weird. You would only expect similar (eg the various technology strands) subjects to clash, not ones that are totally different.

Most schools will have popular subjects in several option blocks. The option blocks are just for timetabling - to make the school's life easier.

Thanks again for all the replies.

The additional science option is GCSE, not AS-level. Along with science (which is compulsory) it leads to two GCSE grades and pupils who follow it can go on to do any of the sciences at A'level - so it very much keeps her options open.

Zippy and Blueberry - couldn't agree more - the thing that's irking us all the most is that art and history clash - that seems like madness as they are complementary. The school has kept it like this for several years, despite protests from parents.

Dd1 says she has a friend who chose history GCSE in that column and who is now studying art A'level despite not doing if for GCSE.

And I agree that dd2 may well end up being a linguist rather than a lawyer - at the moment she's fascinated by crime which is why she's professing an interest in criminal law - but is also nagging us to go to Spain in the summer so she can practise her Spanish.

But I'm afraid I'm with those who think sociology isn't a great option. A) she doesn't want to do it B) it's not well regarded. Neither would product design be, but at least dd might enjoy that because of the artistic element.

Am worrying more about dd1 now who had 3Cs in her sciences - following that the school was told in an inspection to improve the standards and expectations in science. She's not planning to study science (is also thinking of law or languages), but it could well count against her. I've suggested she put on her personal statement that the school's science teaching was subsequently criticised, although would be grateful for views on that too.

I'm finding it difficult to conceal my annoyance with the school - dh and I had quite a robust conversation with the headmaster, telling him I thought most of the options in the 5th column (aside from triple science and music A'level) were mickey mouse as he tried to defend "Digital Cre80r"- actually not concealing my annoyance at all.

But unless we vote with our feet I'm very much afraid we're stuck with it. It seems to me the school, which was achieving good results and catering well for brighter pupils, really is now working more for the less academic at the expense of those who want more support in traditional subjects.

Great for those who want to do more vocational training, but I'm beginning to think only the private sector is catering properly for the academic kids which is just wrong, wrong wrong.

There's been a change of headteacher in the last few years - the previous one was an Oxbridge graduate - and the present one really wound me up by arguing that the Welsh assembly government had assured them BTECs are regarded as equivalent to GCSEs by employers. Dh and I both recruit people, and we know that's just not true.

Sociology isn't a mickey mouse subject - it's pretty hard and academic when done properly (speaking as someone who knows ). And for all the legal snobs: large portions of socio-legal studies which contribute to many Law degrees ARE sociology...

But I really wouldn't recommend it as a GCSE subject. It ought to be done at A level or degree level if you're interested in it, but given your daughter's career interests, do what everyone else says and encourage Triple Science or History.

Pixie, you said
"If I can find a list I will post it for you - even some of the more academic subjects, such as Government and Politics (although this is for A Level) find their way onto the 'less acceptable' list."
but my chum's DD is holding an offer for history at Oxford and one of her three A2s is Government and Politics.

'TECs are regarded as equivalent to GCSEs by employers.'

I am so sick of headteachers trying to say things like this which are simply untrue. I don't know if it's deliberate or whether they simply have no idea about the realities of work.

I'd just like to add in here that a lot of the threads about GCSE Options have had a real "BTECs are crap", "X,Y and Z are Mickey Mouse subjects" and so on, and, as a teacher of Drama and Performing Arts (at BTEC level - double whammy) I find it saddening that so many parents are such snobs about newer subjects and qualifications. One of my VI form girls, who is taking BTEC Performing Arts with me, along with two A Levels and a further BTEC in Business Studies is currently weighing up her options for university, having been accepted at nearly all her choices to read English Literature, one of which (Warwick) is a Russell Group instituion, so clearly her choice of Mickey Mouse subjects and dodgy new courses hasn't done her too much damage. A great many schools are moving towards some of the newer courses at both KS4 and KS5, and it's not just for the benefit of the school. Believe it or not, the majority of schools have the students' best interests at heart, not just their own standing in their local community and their place on the County League Tables.

That said, I do sympathise with students when they have to take options. Two of the three schools I've taught in have managed to do "open" choices, and then just deal with the headache of timetabling. I don't see why more schools can't do it like that. Surely that is what is best for the students.

EvilTwins - thanks for your comments. While it's good for students to have a wider range of subjects, what saddens me is that, certainly in my dd's case, it's actually lessening her options.

And that's becase the school is offering so many choices in, I'm afraid to say, Mickey Mouse subjects. Like hair and beauty or Digital Cre8or. There are a few new teachers, but fundamentally the timetable is being squeezed to fit in this huge range of subjects, many of limited educational value.

I can see why they're doing it - they're taking the politically-inspired route to keep more non-academic kids in school and coming out with some sort of qualification, of whatever value. And that's at the expense of the academic options.

Actually I wouldn't count drama as a Mickey Mouse subject - dd1 did this for GCSE - and the study of the texts involved (including Shakespeare) helped her with her English Lit as well as increasing her confidence.

But we wouldn't have wanted her to do more than one non-academic subject, whereas dd2 may well have to take two non-traditional subjects and risk it counting against her if, for example, she wants to apply for Oxford or Cambridge.

I would think sociology would be good for law. have the people who dismiss it ever actually looked into what it involves? Statistics, politics, history, debating skills, current affairs, critical thinking. I think it would be perfect for a future lawyer.

For extra GCSEs, you might want to look on the home ed forums for info.

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bloss if you are doing the timetable then not being a complete jibbering wreck, and being able to string a sentence together are both significant acheivements. A friend of mine, in a significant act of heroism, took on the timetable purely so that he could arrange his classes to be able to pick up on days when his DW was working late.

An update - she's now coming around to the idea of doing music AS/A'level and will see the teacher today.

She played the violin from the age of 5 (but gave up in Yr 6 after passing grade 3) and is planning to learn the piano instead for the performance element - an instrument she's never had lessons on but happily comes in from school and sits down to play.

Dd1 is grade 6 standard on another instrument, and I did grade 8 many moons ago, so we're hoping this might be the solution which we can support her with (and I'm pleased it means dd2 returning to music because she was good at it) - but it's an ambitious aim - we'll need to find out if the school will give her enough support to achieve it too.

It would mean she'd have one A'level under her belt before going into sixth form which she thinks is "cool". Not sure if it's cool enough for her to practise like mad all summer though!

Apparently only a "bunch of geeks" are going to do product design, so that's put her off, whereas she has a friend who's going to do the music course.

Are the school happy for her to take AS music? I thought you needed to be around grade 4/5 on your main instrument at the beginning of the course as the performance at the end of AS is supposed to be around grade 6 standard.

We looked at DD2 taking the AS without the GCSE when she was choosing her A levels. She was above the required standard for the performance and if she had gone ahead she would have taken grade 5 theory as preparation. The course just looked like it would expand to fill the time available with all the composing and extra practice so in the end she decided against it. It seems odd that your school seems to thing it will fit into a GCSE sized gap. I would worry that taking such a "big" course alongside GCSEs would drag down her grades on some other subjects.

This is a bit off the topic, but, if she really wants to be a criminal barrister (I am one), she should be aware that there is an enormous amount of competition for fewer and fewer slots.
To bust a few myths out there;
You do not have to have a law degree (although if you don't you have to take a 1 yr "conversion course" afterwards, and all applicants additionally have to do the 1yr BVC to be called to the Bar); increasingly we find that applicants have not studied law at University;
You definitely do not need to be Oxbridge, but you need to have a 2:1 to stand any chance of getting accepted onto the BVC course and either a 2:1 or a 1st from a top-ranked university to get offered a pupillage at a decent set of chambers;
What we look for are high academic standards, maturity, genuine interest in the law, usually the vocational application of law (e.g. working as a volunteer in a CAB or legal advice centre), and outside interests.
To this end, I wouldn't worry at all about what subjects will or will not work with law at GCSE level; what you do need to worry about is whether those GCSEs will lead to the kind of A levels that will lead to an offer from a good university. What she actually does at university is less important than you might initially think given that she will have to do 2 years of law and a year of pupillage afterwards.

Incidentally, I did music A-level.....

Thanks webwiz and burroo.

I've put a call in to the school to find out how they would feel about her taking AS music. As they haven't given her many decent options, I can't see how they can sensibly refuse.

What I would say to her - but not at the outset and certainly not to the school - is that if she struggles with it then that's the one subject to "give" - and maybe not even sit the exams. If she does take the exams, and doesn't do too well then I'd suggest ignoring the result completely - it would be a separate certificate to the GCSEs and the A'levels she would sit subsequently. She would still have 11 GCSEs, which is ample and all of those in academic subjects.

I'm hoping the school will see sense and perhaps suggest she does the GCSE if she does embark on the AS-level course and find it too hard as they wouldn't want a poor result dragging down the school's other grades.

But perhaps I'm being naive - at the moment it's just a case of her choosing something to do in that 5th column, at the school's insistence. At least music would give her something creative to do in place of art.

Burroo - many thanks for your valuable advice - dd1 is in the process of applying for an Oxford summer school place for law. It's not my subject at all so this is extremely useful to hear.

Thanks webwiz and burroo.

I've put a call in to the school to find out how they would feel about her taking AS music. As they haven't given her many decent options, I can't see how they can sensibly refuse.

What I would say to her - but not at the outset and certainly not to the school - is that if she struggles with it then that's the one subject to "give" - and maybe not even sit the exams. If she does take the exams, and doesn't do too well then I'd suggest ignoring the result completely - it would be a separate certificate to the GCSEs and the A'levels she would sit subsequently. She would still have 11 GCSEs, which is ample and all of those in academic subjects.

I'm hoping the school will see sense and perhaps suggest she does the GCSE if she does embark on the AS-level course and find it too hard as they wouldn't want a poor result dragging down the school's other grades.

But perhaps I'm being naive - at the moment it's just a case of her choosing something to do in that 5th column, at the school's insistence. At least music would give her something creative to do in place of art.

Burroo - many thanks for your valuable advice - dd1 is in the process of applying for an Oxford summer school place for law. It's not my subject at all so this is extremely useful to hear.