How ridiculous that you can pass the 11+ and not get into a grammar school.

[RockingChair]

Not that mine are doing it, but I couldn't believe that there are a great many children who, after learning they have passed the exam, are not even being offered a place.

Surely they should do as they did in my day 30 plus years ago. X amount of grammar places, the top x amount passed the exam. Everyone got a place at their grammar school.

What must they be doing to these children who are distraught on learning they have not made a place.

I almost feel like a march ! Absolutely dreadful to play with these childrens minds, who now may not think they are good enough.

Will get orf me soapbox now.

how weird. this never came up in active convos! so trying again.

You could argue that they shouldn't be entered into taking the 11 plus for schools that they are unlikely to get into (due to catchment).

Only playing devils advocate (and yes I admit my dd has got into her GS for next year).

My Ds passed his 11+ and when we made our schools choice, the first 3 were the grammars and the next 2 faith schools and the last was a mixed comp. I didn't build Ds up to believe that he'd get a place in a grammar, but I made sure that all the schools put down were acceptable to both of us. I think it's up to parents to make sure their children are prepared to accept what they are allocated. It's most likely the parents that are most disappointed unless the Dc's have been pushed to the point where it's their expectation that they will get a grammar school place. Just my point of view.

yes sugartits, but in my day, the grammar spaces were shared out with the ones who passed with the highest marks, and some came from outside the area, but there was not this huge disappointment that there seems to be today.

i see what you mean solo, but when i did it, we had a choice of the grammar schools only iirc.

So if you passed you got a pink slip with the grammars on it of which you put your order of preference.

Not eveyone got their choice but they all got a grammar place.

If you didn't pass, then you got a cream coloured slip with the other schools on and made your choice of those.

Just seems so much easier all round.

It's changed since then RC. Yes, I left school 30 years ago too! and went to a faith secondary.

In our area, you get a CAF and have 6 choices. You don't have to choose 6, but of course if you don't get your choices and have only put 2 down, you'll just get whatever which is not the way to go...although my friends Ds got his only choice doing it this way(not a grammar school).
I have to say though that filling in the CAF was the hardest part of the entire process for me.

ok, no passing or failing .

The main beef is that the ones who have got the higher score/been selected, i have no idea of the wording as they still use pass or fail round here, BUT those children who were selected, then raise their hopes for a place for a few months, to come crashing down again when they don't get into the grammar.

It must be very painful to deal with if it were a child of mine. No matter whether you play it down, that child knows, they could have had a grammar place, but then wasnt offered one.

I try to tell me Ds that 'you'll be where you're meant to be' in everything he does. It is hard though, I'm not denying that.

oh i fully agree with that dinosaur. I have one DD who did not take the 11+ as she would have struggled at a grammar, but now on target for a top uni.

I really don't think it would have been the same for her at a grammar. She would have felt out of her depth with all the really brainy ones, so i believe it is very important to choose the school that best suits your child rather than the most academic. But this is going off topic....

Suppose. But the same thing applies to A levels doesn't it? If you get 4 A*s and still can't get your place at Uni of Whereever because every other bugger got 5As. It's a shame but inevitable.

It's because there are fewer grammar schools. Nothing to do with "catchment" I don't think. Our grammar school didn't have one.

so if there are fewer grammar schools, the easiest way would be to have fewer children selected?

I know it is a huge disappointment to some who don't get the selection but at least you would know from day one, rather than hang it out for another 3 odd months, which for many spells only disappointment.

RockingChair - in theory, but you can't tell some people their child is not suitable for grammar school. More grammar schools would also solve the problem. But like that's ever going to happen.

They seem to manage it better here - you know back in October whether you've 'met the required standard' in the 11+, but if you've done that you are also told at that point if you've been allocated a place (which is basically all the in-catchment who passed plus enough out-of-catchment to fill the remaining places - that can be determined either purely on exam mark or also taking distance into account). Then there will be some number who are given a place on the reserve list - this was what happened to DD - so you're then waiting till now to find if you've got the GS place, but you've a realistic idea of whether you're likely to get it or not. So you can make your preferences sensibly, do private entrances if apt as backup rather than being in the dark.

but UQD - they are being told their child is not suitable pretty much by not offering them a place.

Not in as many words but what good can it do to select a child, then say see yer 3 months later.

The child and parent know they have been selected, so good enough for a grammar place, but not quite as good as others.

I don't really know the answer, apart from as you say, more grammar schools, but it was only on chatting to other parents that I found out, that getting the selection letter meant you were only over the first hurdle with another 3 odd months of agony. A case of so near and yet so far.

When i did mine, i got my letter which in those days said i passed, there was the choice of the 3 grammar schools, we put our order of preference and it was guaranteed we got one of them. So much more straightforward!

I suppose I'd argue that there is a difference between "not suitable for grammar school" and "not enough places for grammar school". One is measured against absolute criteria; the other is dependent on current conditions.

It's like passing your driving test, only to be told there are too many cars on the road so you can't actually drive yet.

Why are children distraught? Have they been celebrating getting into a grammar school before they've been selected?
I thought grammar schools were supposed to be selective.

Cat - I have no idea how they decide who gets the places, only that some are told they have been selected as suitable (not sure on the exact termination) then they don't get a grammar place.

A correction to how I got my grammar place all those years ago (1975 actually!) Have spoken to my mum about this and she said they put the grammar schools down if you were taking the 11+ in order of preference. Then you did the exam. When the letter came through, you were told you had passed and given the grammar school from the choices you had put down all in the one letter, on the one date. Luckily I got the first choice. So you knew everything by the one letter.

What I don't understand is the point of telling thousands of people they are suitable, then they don't get a place. Clearly, there will be a great many who have their hopes lifted for a place when there is no chance at all, for whatever reasons, I do not know.

It just all seems a bit daft.

I suppose the only positive is that you know that you are of a certain standard, whether or not you get a place.

The whole system is iniquitous and hugely unfair and should be abolished.

And before anyone says it, yes, my dd is at a grammar school. That doesn't stop me thinking that the system should be scrapped.