paid work to put on UCAS form

[mumoverseas]

Was going to post in AIBU but not brave enough today

DS1 is in L6 doing his AS levels. Over the years I sacrificed a lot to put him through prep school. He spent a few years abroad where DH and I live due to his work and did his GCSEs here. Returned to UK last year for A levels and he managed to bully us/persuade us to let him go to probably the most expensive 6th form college he could find.
DH and I had planned to return to the UK last summer to get our youngest DC settled back there but due to DS1 we simply couldn't afford it. School fees are crippling us and as a result I've just had to re-mortgage our house.

I've helped DS1 as much as I can. He has for years thought he wanted to be a lawyer so when he was 14 I paid for him to do GCSE law and DH flew back to the UK with him to sit the exam. We've paid for extra tuition for him to get through his GCSE french at age 13 and for him to then do arabic GCSE.

I've done so much research for him (in between MNetting of course) and found out about a lot of law conferences and applied for him, got him work experience etc. All of this will of course look good on his Uni application.

I got a lot of really helpful from some lovely ladies on a UCAS thread last year and told him that he really needed to think about paid employment this coming summer due to the section on the UCAS form which apparently requires paid employment. I found details of lots of agencies that deal with students for summer jobs etc, gave him hints on putting together a cv and got a somewhat sarcastic reply along the lines of 'when do I have time to work'.

I have just received an email saying he has been told by the Uni adviser at his school that he NEEDS to have paid employment. He wants my help, what should he do.

I replied with my gut response which was that I'd told him all this last year, made lots of suggestions and had suggested the CV, writing to various places etc.
Pointed out I'd left school at 16 and by his age had already been working for 6 months and was giving half my weekly wage (40 pounds!) to my mum for housekeeping. I feel it is time he got off his arse and found some work, particularly as HE is the one in the UK and I'm 3,000 miles away.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking he should be doing something himself or should I still be doing everything apart from wiping his backside?

Views and suggestions gratefully received

Obviously meant to say 'helpful information'

Presumably you've still got all the research you did last year? Why not just send him that again and tell him to get on with it?

I know he hasn't really tried, which is annoying, but even if he puts his heart and soul into it, they are very difficult to get!
My DS spent 2 years trying to get a part time job. The first problem is the hours, he would go for an advert for a Saturday job and the first question was 'and what other hours can you work?' He really didn't want to work for much more than an extra evening because of school work. I came to the conclusion that employers wanted a cheap labour force to call upon when they wanted-as in 'we don't need you this Saturday but we want you on Wed, Thurs and Fri evening.
The right timing was another. One supermarket had no jobs when he was 16, they did when he was 17 but then they wanted the 16 yr olds because they had 2 yrs work before they went off.
He phoned up Pizza Hut about his application and they said they were sifting through over 100 applications! He went for a seasonal Christmas job and had an hour for a group interview with all sorts of group inititive tests such as 'how to design a bathtub'. There were about 20 of them at this stage. He got through that round to a second interview but didn't quite make it, there were only 2 jobs.
He came close quite a few times, I remember him phoning up about one interview and was told they had got the definites and the definite nots and he was a 'maybe if space'-after 3 weeks he got the rejection letter.
He finally got one because I happened to be in a cafe, asked if they had any weekend work and for once I asked at just the right time-I rushed the form home and back before anyone else got in and he got the job. This was all too late for the UCAS form-it had long been filled in.
He is now trying to get a summer job as a student........as are all other students. He has the advantage of being old enough for bar work now, which may be a help.
I don't want to be discouraging but it isn't that simple. The people at Connexions asked if he wanted help with his CV. When I was that age I wandered up the High Street asking if there were vacancies-if they did they asked your school and you started the next week! There were no CVs or interviews and they only wanted the Saturday.
He may be lucky. He might have to consider volunteer work.

Is paid employment that important? I don't remember DD mentioning it when she filled in her form. She has done paid work but it was only lowly waitressing / potwash and was totally irrelevant to her Uni choices.

Law is fiendishly competitive to get in to: I would have thought that more work experience would be better to have on the personal statement, in preference to any old minimum-wage-paying job. Can he go back to his previous work experience placement and see if they have anything?

Half the point of ruinously expensive boarding schools is the contacts you make. Has he done any networking amongst parents etc at school?

But, to reiterate about competitiveness, he does have a point about time to study (although we all know that he using it as an excuse). If there is a contest of getting his grades v. getting a transient summer job then grades win hands down.

Where is he living over the summer?

I don't understand why the school is saying he HAS to have paid employment. Are you sure they don't mean work experience, which would be unpaid.

I know for courses such as Medicine they do need work experience, perhaps it is the same for Law. In which case, as Senua suggests, he should get working on the parents of his fellow pupils at school, some of whom are bound to be lawyers!!

(BTW I was on the UCAS thread under a different name, but not one who has children doing UCAS this year). My DS1 (now at RG university) didn't even have a job so he didn't put on UCAS form. He got 5 offers, but he isn't doing Law.

Hi, many thanks for your answers.

I gave him all the research I did at the time, forwarded it all to him last year. Will have to see if I still have it somewhere.
I'm not expecting him to get a regular saturday job, that would be difficult with him being a full boarder. Had however hoped he could try to get a summer job but maybe I'm being unrealistic.

Don't think he has done any networking yet but will suggest it. The work experience I sorted out last summer was at my old firm of solicitiors but not local, 2 hour round trip so I paid for him to stay in a local hotel last year so not feasible long term.

He will be at our UK house near Gatwick all summer (I'll be back then too) so had previously suggested he look for something at the airport as its just a 10 min walk to the train station and one stop on the train.

I suppose I will have to resign myself to doing more research in between looking after DC3 and 4 and trying to finish off a distance learning course I'm struggling to complete

Actually, tbh, I think a spell of doing some paid employment would do him good. Tell him that he needs to find the job himself, and that it is the experience of looking for jobs and applying for them etc that is the valuable part.

A job over the summer isn't going to adversely affect his grades, and will teach him a lot about the real world and the value of money

CMOT, you are my new best friend

Kick his backside and tell him that if he wants to be a lawyer he actually needs to do something about it.

My 14yo has a Saturday job in a charity shop, which she organised for herself -- she doesn't get paid at the moment, but wants to get retail experience so that she can get a job in TopShop or similar when she's 15 or 16. She also does babysitting to earn her spending money.

It's not brain surgery -- presumably he's got used to you doing lots for him and thinks he can just sit back and wait for it to fall into his lap? If so he's going to get a very rude awakening when he finds you're not there to sort out his university essays and his job applications for him. The sooner he realises it's his life and he needs to take responsibility for it the better.

tell him - 1 - contact the agencies you have already given him the details of

2 - if nothing comes of that (and it may well not do, given current UK economic conditions an inexperienced teen wanting a summer job may not find one) then he should fix himself up with work experience and/or voluntary work. He could try contacting local CPS or CAB as well as law firms and/or barristers chambers for work experience. Would imagine the local hospitals or charity shops would be grateful for volunteers.

I'll second what Piscesmoon said about jobs being difficult to get - there is no such thing as a Saturday job anymore just part time work that adults and teenagers have tofight over. DD2 has just endured a gruelling 3 hour group interview with adults and sixth formers for a few hours work each week. She didn't get the job but neither did the nice lady that DD2 was chatting to who was on her third interview that week. If she hasn't found anything by Easter I'll say stop, concentrate on exams and try again for the summer.

The reason she wants a job is for the money as I really don't think it makes any difference for her UCAS form. She has certainly tried to get a job so I am supportive and try to be on the generous side with money when I can but if she couldn't even be bothered to look I think my attitude would be different. My friend's DS can't be bothered to look for a job and when she offered him extra cash for cleaning the car he couldn't be bothered to do that either!

Sounds like your son needs to do a bit of heavy lifting at the airport for the summer overseasmum

Loads of temp jobs in Crawley - and as the bus system is good, he may well be able to sign with a temp agency which would give him more chance. Things like data entry are always unpopular to their regular temps, so more available to skilled teens.

DH sees a lot of new graduates who have never done paid work before their first job, and they are a right pain and can make themselves v unpopular as they don't know the unwritten rules of getting on with people in a job. So anything where they are expected to turn up on time, look tidy, do what they are requested to etc is really important - much better to make those mistakes when you are young and people are more forgiving. Work experience isn't the same

Well done to your DD1 Riven

ooh thanks for that CMMOT. Will look into the Crawley temps jobs. That would be perfect as just a bus ride. Have already decided that the 'mum taxi' is on strike this summer, I have 3 others to think about.
Data entry sounds perfect, he spends enough time on his PC

I love MN

I know you have done a lot for him, mumoverseas, and I understand totally. Ds is on the receiving end of my never-ending efforts to turn him into Renaissance Boy!

But - there's a time to realise that someone HAS to make the effort without help. Dh's niece was (is) completely and utterly helicoptered, and the result is a wishy-washy, lily-livered 22 year-old. Perfectly nice girl, but one who has never ever done anything for herself. All her university applications done for her, work experienced arranged, student house found (and I'm of the firm belief she has done every bit of school and university work for her)... She is absolutely gumptionless, and now she can't find a job because she can't take her mother into the interview. Heaven knows the mother's tried to get in, though!

if he can't get paid employment, I'd second the idea of going to a charity shop or similar for WE - law is a lot about dealing with people, even the academic side needs a good dose of common sense (not something all law students have in abundance!), and such jobs really bring that side out. and also make you look a bit normal on the UCAS form, not some over-coached hothouse flower (not suggesting you ds is, but it's not an attractive "look" for admissions tutors!)

CMOT, give me a clue where all the temp jobs in Crawley are. I can't find any

Actually, I really fancy getting a temp job myself this summer and escaping from those blardy kids

Some admissions tutors will probably come on later, but I don't think the paid employment section makes the slightest bit of difference. 'We' only discovered it at the last minute and he didn't have any, nor did the school ever mention it.

Courses like medicine and engineering look for work experience, but the pay doesn't count.

I can't speak for law, but 5 offers at top universiites here with no paid emplyment and 1 week work experience at a bank.

Admissions tutor on DS1s first choice never mentioned needing much extra curriculum stuff unless pertinent to the course. So stacking shelves not going to help much.

Also if he is studying hard for 4/5 A levels (as per your previous msgs) there is an argument to letting him veg out over the holidays.

If you can get a temp job by bus it makes life easier. DS1 did temping for a while when he first left university, but his car was essential. My DS who is looking for a summer job has just applied to one that needs a train and a bus.(he doesn't drive because he couldn't afford the lessons).
I think it is even harder at the moment, school leavers can't find jobs, those graduating can't find jobs and all students will be looking for summer jobs-this is why they can hold 2 rounds of interviews to stack supermarket shelves!
My DS didn't get his in time for the UCAS form. It is just one thing to show independence-you just have to show it by other means. Voluntary work is just as valuable-although my DS was desperate for some income, and he will be in the summer.