If your Y7 DD is.....

[CardyMow]

Working on NC level 1 work (she has SEN), in MS, and struggling with the subjects that she has been put in the lowest set for (that they're not differentiating enough for her in), What would you reasonably expect them to acheive at the end of Y11? The school have already dropped MFL as it was too much for her to cope with, and she does extra maths & English lessons with a TA in the timetabled MFL lessons. I'm getting a bit concerned that she is not going to be capable of acheiving a 'G' grade in a lot of her exams, yet still be made to try to do the work, which will surely result in her getting depressed and demoralised, AND working in a classroom full of disruptive pupils (which a lot of the children in her lowest sets seem to be), which IS making her bocome more disruptive (she is picking up bad habits from others). I am getting very concerned by the fact that MS schools seem to lump disruptive pupils in the same classes with SEN pupils, which means that most lessons the TA apeears to be trying to 'control' the class, rather than actually HELP my DD to get some (any) work done. If she doesn't get any GCSE's, what hope is there of her getting a job/living independantly?

Hi. I havent any idea what she would be predicted to get at GCSE but I imagine if she is still at level 1 in secondary she needs a very differentiated curriculum. A friend with a Ds with Downs had similar concerns re behaviour in the bottom groups till it occured to her his curriculum was so differentiated he didnt have to sit in with the bottom group. He wasnt doing the same work so why couldnt he sit in with any group. As she moves up the school it might be worth ensuring she has a decent independant living skills programme in place. I am assuming she has a statement?

Empty HA! at having a statement. Secondary are trying to help me. Primary school, they were, well.... That suggestion may be an answer to the disruption, will mull that one over in my mind. They are atm working on her social skills one lunchtime a week, and her independence skills, they're going to see what help they can put in place for that after the meeting I had today to fill in cafs form. Just worrying (in advance) about how I'll finacnially support her if she can't work after 16yo, as I'm registered disabled on benefits myself, and all hers will stop when she leaves education. But her need for food and activities won't. And with a lack of serious 'formal' dx (it's all oh she's got this/that/the other with no real paperwork, which means a distinct lack of DLA for her...) ...just a lot running round my brain right now...

my dd1 goes to a comprehensive- when they had their options in year 9 the timetable and options had appropriate non exam subjects focussed on literacy, numeracy and living skills, they also had things such as Drama for Life, which is a non exam subject and others so that everyone can access some sort of balanced cirriculum.

i can understand your concerns, my SEN nephew is 24 and unable to work- he lives at home and gets both DLA and income support. This was through his GP's intervention and Connections who were both very helpful. Connections arranged courses for him in things in like fork-lift truck driving and boosted his confidence. In normat economic times he may have been able to have a job but he is up against it at the moment. However, his benefits contribute enough for his food and to clothe him and enough pocket money. over the next few years we will be looking at charity placements to help him gain independence and possibly leave home.

hope this helps

A couple of things:-

Behaviour in bottom sets can be v poor. I understand your concern here and would address them with the SENCO asap if I were you.

The weakest reader I ever taught (he could barely read at all aged 16) scored a G at GCSE English (and I think he got at least 3 Gs overall - TA readers in every other subject). He was pretty good orally though, so this brought his grdae up. But it shows you that v poor readers can achieve something at GCSE.

It's not so much the 'reading' as the understanding what she's read IYSWIM. So even having a TA read the questions out to her, she wouldn't be able to answer them without an in-depth explanation in terms that she 'gets'. Which they CAN'T do in exam conditions. While the behaviour in her bottom sets is just a small bit 'off' and only slightly disrupting her right now, I can see it being a MASSIVE disruption by the time they are all in Y10/11. She is expected to acheive lvl 1M/lvl 1H in most subjects at the END of Y7. There are some subjects that she isn't expected to reach lvl 1L in by July. .

Loudlass - are there no special schools near you that would be suitable? Where I work our kids leave 16 with bags of qualifications although not often GCSEs. We do ASDAN, Entry LEvels, AQA units all at KS4. Our kids rarely fail and if they do it's because the teacher didn't get the differentiation right.

My bottom sets are not the worst behaved by any means. Middle sets more challenging IME. And they get smaller as they move up the school. My bottom set year 11 has only 13 students in it, and is pretty calm. With regard to qualifications, in my school, a student working at that kind of level would be unlikely to do many GCSEs. We have a different curriculum for students who would struggle otherwise. We offer a lot of vocational subjects and life skills courses. I hope the school can move the statementing process forward.

I'm hoping that the school can move the statementing process along too, but, having looked at the SN schools locally, she won't get a place, as they have already filled the secondary places. . The school do offer some slightly more vocational courses, but it wouldn't be enough for a full timetable from what I can see, so she would have to sit through some GCSE lessons that bored her because she won't understand them.

And despite her classes being very small in the lowest set (I was told 12 when applying for the school, there are actually 19 in there this year), the behaviour is already...erm...concerning...in some of the other children. Like the pupil who got put in isolation because he threw his planner at the maths teacher and cut the teacher's face. Not a day goes by when DD doesn't tell me that someone in her class has either a detention for behaviour or been put in isolation for it. Yet DD on her report (got it through the post yesterday) got all goods and excellents for her behaviour. I'm quite concerned that if this is the cohort she is to spend the next 5 years with, that at least some of their behaviour will 'rub off' on DD, despite my best efforts at home...

AND I'll point out that this is the one of the 'best' schools in my whole town. It has a very good reputation for behaviour, it just seems to be her set IYSWIM. There are other local schools where behaviour like this is commonplace in all sets. So moving to another MS school will not help.

Can you look at special schools further afield, loudlass, even independent schools? It's harder to get the LA to fund an out of county placement but if you show that it's the ONLY school that can meet her needs and has a vacancy, they will have to, if it is written into the statement. (Or sometimes they suddenly find they CAN find a place at their own schools after all). You can get taxi travel written into statements too so don't just limit it to schools that you can travel to easily. It is a fight and I know you're not quite there yet with the statement, but please don't resign yourself at this stage.

The statement is key. The LA has an obligation legally to fund appropriate education, so hopefully the lack of places in special schools locally won't mean they can't provide elsewhere.

You may find the local FE college has some courses specially for children with additional needs. Special schools often access these too. These include vocational courses such as brick laying, catering, hair and beauty and so on also numeracy for life skills. These courses are usually from 16+ but worth investigating.

A special school setting may also be appropriate. Do you have an educational psychologist . They are a wealth of local information.

Have you looked at your local special schools. I know you believe they are full. If they look like the right enviroment they may be able to help with the statementing. Have you applied for a statutory assessment for a statement?? If not there is a standard letter on the IPSEA website. You can do it youself. it doesn't have to come from the school though of course working with them is best. LEA's are encourages to keep the number of statements down . Also do take advise from people independant of the LEA who are of course protective of their budget. eg SOSSEN or IPSEA
Some special needs schools also have alot of behavioural issues

I have tried twice (Y5 & Y6) to get her statemented, but without backing from the school, the LEA refused to assess. We are waiting for CAMHS to see her (filled in a cafs form, now waiting). Once she has been seen by CAMHS (thinking additional report will help, as even EP's report is from over a year ago). Then I'll apply for a statement again, and will actually appeal if she gets turned down this time. Autism Anglia are helping me this time (had no help the last 2 times). And while there may be behaviour issues in a SN school, there will also be more adults in the class to try to sort it out...And with my DD's needs, it's not so much 'out of county' as the other side of the county, we have 2 suitable SN schools covering half the county, and 2 covering the other half, and the LEA refuse to pay transport from one side of the county to the other. (Have looked into it lots over past 3 years!)

You know what best for your child. If you feel a special school is where she will do best fight for it. I am glad you are taking advise from an outside organisation. The more evidence you can gather the better, from as many sources as possible. Remember anyone from inside the LEA will be toeing the LEA line!. Still might be worth contacting SOSSEn . They have a lot of experiance with tribunals etc.

THe 'best' schools aren't necessarily the ones with best provision for students aren't academic. Our results are lower than the other school in town, but our provision for children with SEN is outstanding.

The 'best' school was also the one that offered her twice as much 'help time' on SA+. She is currently getting 11+ hours a week. 3 of the other schools said 2hrs max, one said 1 hr max, and the only one that offered anything remotely comparable offered 4.5 hrs/week, but that school had 'vertical forms' which meant for her PSHE lessons etc she would be in a class that ranged in age from 11yo to 16yo. No way on earth did I want my SN DD learning about sex & relationships alongside 16yo boys who could (and probably would) take advantage of her...I just didn't think that other school was the right 'fit' for DD (or my peace of mind) within the MS choices locally. So while I get what you are saying, I originally thought along the lines you're talking about, TFM, but it really was the only real option within MS in my town for my DD.

It doesn't help that 2 of my town's schools will be shutting in the year DD ends Y10 in. So she would have to do Y10 in one school, and Y11 in another, if I had chosen one of those 2 schools. NOT acceptable, IMO.