year 7 teachers - please can you explain

[3littlefrogs]

Why, oh why, does every single piece of homework have to be done on a computer??? I have ranted about this before, but I really am getting to the end of my tether. I cannot afford to upgrade our (admittedly rather old) domestic IT arrangements.

Don't tell me that computers and printers are available at school - they are, but at strictly limited times and they are all hogged constantly by the bigger kids; the year 7s don't get a look in, even if they do drag themselves to school by 7.45am to try and get in the queue.

Dd was set an assignment to make a poster to illustrate a piece of writing. She spent an hour and a half drawing and writing what I thought was an excellent piece of creative work. She got a B.

Her classmate spent literally 5 minutes (as she loudly boasted to anyone within earshot)downloading, copying and pasting, and got an A.

What has dd learned? Not to bother making any effort to produce anything original.

At our school there are after school clubs where children can stay to do their homework, including access to computers if required.

Also at our public libraries children can have 1hr per day FOC, and are allowed to print out homework FOC.

They definately don't at the school I teach at.

Indeed, many of the homework assignments for yr 7 science cannot be done on a computer (make a food web mobile/a model of a cell etc). We also exactly share what they need to do/show understanding of to achieve each grade. If a student has produced answers that are clearly 'cut and pasted' I will ask them questions about their understanding before grading.

Didn't this work have any feedback with it along with the grade e.g. what was good about it/what they need to do to improve their grade?

We have moved away from frequent homework assignments at KS3, favouring longer 'key homework' assignments, set less often with a set timetable across all subjects. These MUST be marked throughly.

I'm sorry that your dd has been discouraged so early, that is such a shame. I am sure she is learning much more than the 'cut and paste' student. I would certainly complain if this continues.

Very little H/W in Yr 7 should need to be done on the computer. Nor should ANY work in Yr 7 be marked at Grade B or Grade A! Yr 7 work should be levelled, with criteria explained to the pupils as to how they get each level.

My DD is in Year 8, and she only rarely has to do work on the computer - same as in Year 7. She can do some of the work on the computer or by hand.

We don't have a computer problem at home, but even if we did, DD would be able to stay at school until 6pm to use their computers, or use them at lunchtime.

For research, she can also use the touchy-feely books in the school library or at our local library. I was chatting to the school librarian recently and she was telling me how saddened she was that many kids just go straight to Google or Wikipedia and never think about real books.

It is probably very convenient for a KS3 teacher to get work that is legible and coherant, so the computer can be attractive, but that shouldn't be a reason not to accept neat handwritten work.

Levelled work - how tedious!

enquire from the Pastoral Manager if there is a dedicated day for Yr7 to use the ICT room(s). A lot of schools operate on this system.

DC's school get marked A1, A2 or B1 etc The letter is for effort and the number is for attainment. I don't see anything wrong with that. Some work does get marked with a level but not all of it.

Just give them marks out of 10 and then a comment as to how they could improve.

They could be on the same level for 2 years and in some subjects go up and down according to the topic.

Levels are lazy - I don't know the pupils - assessment. They are no substitute for actually knowing the strenths, weaknesses and interests of each individual pupil.

Levels are lazy? When you do APP and level work properly and then use it in a diagnostic way to set specific targets for pupils it takes bloomin' ages!

A,B,C etc means nothing at KS3.

Yes at our secondary, lots of hw done on the pooter.

They do get to use them at school, am not sure how their system for sharing works, and DD starts things and can email them home to finish off later.

There really is an expectation of homes having computers, printers etc isn't there?

DH used to lecture at Uni, many years ago, and then all essays etc were done on computers, emailed for marking and emailed back to students, which to me seemed a bit weird, but possibly they way it is going.

It's not OK for the school to insist on word-processing, and this is an equal opportunity issue. Saying the library or school have facilities is no answer; your child is entitled to be at home to do her work.

Computer-produced work should be specifically focussed on ICT skills and this should be made clear, and in writing when the homework is given out.

Literacy issues, such as spelling, grammar and punctuation are all masked by the use of ICT, so why English is asking for this is a mystery. The swift, legible hand needed for exams, need to to be developed early and maintained.

I'd take up the issues from the first two paragraphs with the teacher; use the words equal opportunities and they'll back off.

Hang on; didn't you post on this before, and I gave this advice then? If it's not you, frogs, then apologies, but if it is, then how did you get on?

Hi echt.

Yes - i did post before, and I appreciate your advice. I wanted to go and speak to the teacher then, but dd begged me not to, she thought it would backfire and make her upopular with the teacher. She is having a few problems settling in, so I backed off for a bit, but she is really stressed over it.

The thing is, she is really skilled in IT. She did some excellent work in primary school, where of course there are fewer children using the facilities. It isn't IT specific homework they are getting. This insistence on word processing and printing seems to be for history, geography, RE, English, french.....you name it.

We have had a family conference and all have agreed that instead of christmas presents we will invest in a lap top and a new printer.

None of us can stand this for the next 5 years.

This lap top is ancient and keeps switching itself off, so we really do need to update. I was hoping to get a few other things fixed replaced, but I think this has to come first.

My yr 7 DD has to do 75% of her maths homework not just by computer, but online, and she is a very slow eater, so can't do it at lunchtime, she can't stay after school as she isn't ok walking home in the dark, and they don't open the PC suites before school. I was offline for 8 months (money issues), but you HAVE to be online in her school. It's PANTS!! I have to pay for t'internet (admittedly I'm getting the use of it too, or I wouldn't be on here ) but it's money I don't really have, being a disabled single parent...makes me

We are a comment-only marking school...

And I don't set work that has to be done on a computer, ever.

Exactly loudlass. I don't want my dd coming home in the dark alone either. she comes on the bus with a few others, and I get in from work within half an hour of her getting home.

She has tried getting to school at 8 am, but year 7s are very low down in the pecking order and the older ones just won't let them on the computers.

I am particularly annoyed that the hour and a half she spent doing her homework - which looked great to me - was rewarded with a lower grade than the copied and pasted 5 minute effort of her classmate.

I'm a secondary English teacher - I'd never set H/W that absolutely demanded access to a computer.

If I set homework, then it's often to inform a subsequent piece of work (research on the text we're studying, or practising a skill, eg. using connectives, because it'll be a key assessment focus for the completed task).

If it's research, I always ensure it's something they could do in the school library. If it's practising a skill, it's done in exercise books.

Or it'll be the final draft of an assessed, 'portfolio' piece of work - in which case I would prefer it to be typed. & the vast majority of my students choose to do so - they like the idea that they have worked hard on a draft in their books, & now they're submitting a finished, polished assignment in a 'grown up' way.

However, I always make it explicit that handwritten final drafts are just as acceptable - the fact that I find typescript quicker to mark isn't the student's problem!

But whilst I agree with you, CertainAge, that teachers shouldn't object to handwritten work, I'm with janeite on the levels.

Levels aren't 'lazy'. They tell students exactly what they need to do to progress. By the time I've APP'd a student's work, given written feedback, & got the student to evaluate the strengths & weaknesses of their own work - & possibly their peers - well, it's quite a bit more constructive than a mark out of 10.

I've been teaching for 10 years & there's not much in the way of new initiatives that I get wildly enthusiastic about! But APP is very, very effective, & IME it gives students a far clearer & more precise picture than generalised comment alone. Which, actually, they are very positive about.

3littlefrogs - you shouldn't feel you have to provide a PC for year 7 homework! At least, don't rush to get a printer if you're getting a laptop & not a PC package - dd might be able to print off work at school from a memory stick - worth checking.

Agree with OP and it's even more difficult not having a printer or anywhere to put one if I did have one.

DS has his work graded in the same way as Bruffin says - a mark for attainment and a mark for effort, and then some work is marked with a level.

I would hate for DS to have everything marked with a level. There are some subjects where he gets a relatively low attainment because he is not that good at it, but gets an A for effort because he has worked hard

Thank goodness DS goes to a school where they consider the merit of a piece of work based on more than its national curriculum level.

Sorry MillyR - I didn't mean to imply that we level everything.

Apart from anything, it'd be way too time consuming - it probably takes me 10 minutes to accurately level & give detailed feedback on a KS3 assignment, so we're looking at once per half term, ish. I'm expecting to spend most of tomorrow doing one year 9 group's assignment on 'Lord of the Flies', & every evening this week on the other group.

Most day to day work will just get a comment & an effort grade - often from me wandering around the classroom with my trusty book of stickers!

Key assessments get an effort grade too, & I focus on effort & improvement, rather than raw attainment, when I use the school's 'reward system' (letters home, prizes in assembly etc).

I do teach at a school which is utterly fixated on 'achievement' as measured in terms of levels or GCSE grades - it's all our Head ever sees .

But the point of APP - which is being rolled in to ALL subjects - is that it's about targetting specific skills, rewarding what's done well, & identifying what needs to be worked on & how both the student & the teacher can go about it.

I actually see it as being far more positive than the way we've traditionally used NC levels, which I agree, is reductive & can be thoroughly disheartening.

"Thank goodness DS goes to a school where they consider the merit of a piece of work based on more than its national curriculum level."

I think you're undermining the work teachers do if they're 'marking' something properly. A level is part of a process, not a be all and end all - but it remains an important part of said process. A level on its own is meaningless whilst a level combined with praise and targets is what 'good marking' is all about.

As Raven says, this is therefore a far more constructive but still a largely positive process.

Could someone post a link ,or explain ,what "levelling " and APP are ?

I would just like to point out that the piece of work referred to in the OP did not 'have' to be done on a computer, and that whilst the classmate may well have boasted that her work took five minutes that doesn't guarantee that it did - and in any case the work might simply have been at a higher level. (I am also mystified by the 'A' grade at yr7, and if the teacher had provided a level this would have given your child a clear picture of what the strengths and weaknesses of her work were.)

Levelling is marking a piece of work at a National Curriculum Level. APP uses very clearly defined skills descriptors to inform that process. So, on a very simple level, a child who is aware of full stops would be working in level one, whereas a child who almost always used them accurately would be level 3. The levels are broken down into 6 or 8 different skills (eg sentences, for writing) and each level of skill is clearly defined. Puuting paid to entirely arbitrary 'A's for 'effort'.

APP = assessing pupil progress. Gives v clear info on what pupils can do well and where they need more teaching/extra support etc.